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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 244 of 530 (885017)
03-19-2021 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
03-18-2021 2:54 PM


Re: Why You People Think The Way You Do
Phat writes:
Jesus suggested we share. They want it mandated.
Jesus said that it's what you must do to be saved. That's not a "suggestion". Ananias and Sapphira were killed for not doing it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 03-18-2021 2:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 03-19-2021 12:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 245 of 530 (885018)
03-19-2021 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Phat
03-18-2021 3:22 PM


Re: the classic compartmentalization of Biblical Christianity
Phat writes:
keep in mind that society is made up of a large number of believers.
Yes, believers in Allah, believers in Brahman, believers in YHWH but not Jesus, etc.
Phat writes:
This battle has been going on....
The biggest battle is between one group of your cult and another group of the same cult in the church across the street.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Phat, posted 03-18-2021 3:22 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 03-19-2021 12:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 248 of 530 (885023)
03-19-2021 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Phat
03-19-2021 12:40 PM


Re: Why You People Think The Way You Do
Phat writes:
They were killed for lying. Not withholding.
Nope.
quote:
Acts 5:1-3 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, AND kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, AND to keep back part of the price of the land?
There's no distinction in the text between the act AND lying about the act.
Your argument is the equivalent of saying that murder is okay but lying about murder is really, really bad. That's just crazy.
Phat writes:
You limit your understanding to the character in the book you read about.
That's the only place the character exists. I don't have the luxury of rejecting the parts that I don't like and making up my own version like you do.
Phat writes:
I've actually communed with Him. And you cant say one thing against that since you cant crawl inside my head.
Crawling inside your head would not provide any enlightenment about communion. If I was inside your head, I could only see what you think is happening. You already tell us what you think is happening.
But what you think is wrong.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 03-19-2021 12:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 03-19-2021 1:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 250 of 530 (885025)
03-19-2021 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Phat
03-19-2021 12:42 PM


Re: the classic compartmentalization of Biblical Christianity
Phat writes:
... there are nearly as many Christians in N.America as there are skeptics and other types of worshipers. You hardly have a majority edge here.
Do you see what a bad argument that is? You might as well say that everybody sitting in your chair agrees with you.
That's Trump's argument: "I'm ahead. Stop counting."
That isn't how majorities work.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 03-19-2021 12:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 251 of 530 (885026)
03-19-2021 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Phat
03-19-2021 12:54 PM


Re: Saskatchewan Skeptic
Phat writes:
You are an obvious and willful skeptic.
Thank you. I have other good qualities too.
Phat writes:
Whether or not you actually believe that its possible that the character of god is around today, you don't place much value on betting on it.
You're talking about belief in belief. That's a bridge too far.
And betting is generally a bad idea. You bet on your made-up god and Vishnu turns out to be the real one.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Phat, posted 03-19-2021 12:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 262 of 530 (885050)
03-20-2021 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
03-19-2021 1:05 PM


Re: Why You People Think The Way You Do
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
But what you think is wrong.
How could you possible know.
Same way we know that the flat-earth idea is wrong or that creationism is wrong - by testing them.
Phat writes:
You claim not to be infallible but you are certainly cocky and arrogant.
How is it cocky or arrogant to point out that YOU are not infallible?
Phat writes:
You cant say that a whole belief system is wrong unless you make a better case.
Nonsense. When a tornado wrecks a house, they don't have to present a plan for the new one before they tear down what's left of the old one. We can recognize junk even if we don't have anything to replace it with. And of course, in the case of religion, we don't need to replace it at all.
Phat writes:
In fact, you show that you don't by lumping all religions in the same category.
Yup. I lump all rotten foods into one category: compost.
Phat writes:
Newsflash: Many of them are WRONG.
There you go again, claiming to be infallible. The other religions are wrong but yours is right.
Phat writes:
I simply know and believe....
You can't know and believe. You only believe. So does the Muslim and the Raelian. And the four-year-old who believes in Santa. You have never been able to distinguish your belief from any of theirs.
Phat writes:
Show me how we would even test all of the various religions to see if a clear winner exists?
We can easily test them. Do their claims match reality? Yours doesn't even match your own holy book.
But why must there be a "winner"? Why do we even have to test who can flap his arms to the moon fastest?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 03-19-2021 1:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Phat, posted 03-20-2021 3:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 272 of 530 (885088)
03-22-2021 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Phat
03-20-2021 3:40 PM


Re: Why You People Think The Way You Do
Phat writes:
For the record, I don't believe in Flat Earth.
You might as well. You scoff at evidence and even thinking. If you "believe" in a round earth, it's most likely a religious belief rather than a scientific conclusion.
Phat writes:
But how can (or could) you test God?
Same way as we test anything else. Your claim that there "can not" be evidence of God has no basis. It's just a convenient cop-out.
Phat writes:
How can or could you test whether Jesus existed...
Same way we test whether Napoleon existed.
Phat writes:
... and why if so, He should be treated no differently than any other human?
If you think he should be treated differently, the onus is on you to provide the reasoning and evidence why he should.
Phat writes:
At best I see a gallery of skeptics.
You remind me of the guy on Evolution Fairy Tale who called me a "Skeptic!" with a sneer. He might as well have been calling me an asshole.
"Gallery of skeptics" is a compliment. Most of us here would be glad to be included in that gallery, I think. It doesn't need to get any better than that.
Phat writes:
And why do you insist I claim infallibility?
Because you do. You claim that your interpretation of your "experiences" can't possibly be wrong.
Phat writes:
All that I claim is rationality within the context of my experience.
Rationality implies that you have reasons but you claim you don't need reasons to believe. Belief is not rational.
Phat writes:
And the fact that many people claim the same thing gives me a reasonable assurance that I am not crazy or delusional.
On the contrary, the fact that many other people (Mormons, Raelians, etc.) have contradictory claims indicates that somebody's claims must be wrong.
Phat writes:
Only you and your colleagues make that accusation.
It's not an 'accusation". It's an observation based on the facts.
Phat writes:
Personally, I would be careful before so casually tossing God out with the eggshells.
But that's exactly what you do. You throw out Zeus and Thor. You only preserve your one favorite eggshell.
Phat writes:
I would ask myself why I had no need for the product.
Do that then. Ask yourself why you have need for one eggshell and not the others.
Of course there are millions of products in the world that you don't need. The real question is whether you need an ivory back-scratcher at all.
Phat writes:
I'm not simply going to doubt my personal experience due to some idea that it "can't happen"...
And I have never said you should. But it certainly makes more sense to consider the explanations that could happen.
Phat writes:
... or that rational science shows otherwise.
Well, it does. Rational science (the only kind of science we have) does provide rational explanations for experiences like yours. But you irrationally choose to reject them.
Phat writes:
First, a lot of people have had similar experience.
As I have told you, I have had similar experiences - but I don't jump to the conclusion of demons.
Phat writes:
Second, I know what I have experienced.
You really don't. Remember the story i told you about the thief/non-thief in the black/blue/red coat? What your mind perceived is not an accurate depiction of what your senses sensed - and what you remember is not an accurate record of what your mind perceived.
A fellow named Edward de Bono proposed a demonstration of how memory works: 1. Make some jello in a shallow pan. 2. Set one end of the pan on a book. 3. Drip hot watter at the high end and watch it trickle down to the low end.
Guess what? The water will find the channels that are already there and deepen them - i. e. what's already in your memory will be reinforced by everything new that enters it. The more often you remember something, the stronger the memory becomes - but it might not be an accurate memory at all.
Phat writes:
... for now I wont challenge your hypothesis...i'm just asking why you are so set on it.
And I keep telling you, I'm so set on it because it matches reality. In reality, you are not infallible. Your pre-conceived ideas, based on your religious beliefs, do not trump evidence.
Phat writes:
Finally, there are many scientists such as Dr.John Lennox who are also believers.
Why would a mathematician know anything about how the mind works?
And what about the scientists from other religions who disagree with your interpretation?
Phat writes:
You need to ask yourself why you have such a zeal to attempt to falsify belief...
You need to ask yourself why you think I do.
Phat writes:
... and also why you think that there is only one proper way to think, reason, and conclude.
Why do you think logic has rules? Why do we have a whole list of fallacies? There certainly are right and wrong ways to think.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Phat, posted 03-20-2021 3:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 279 of 530 (885781)
04-26-2021 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by robertleva
04-26-2021 2:27 PM


robertleva writes:
The enemy is not even a spec of dust before Jesus Christ and the Holy Father. And he will burn in the pit of fire for eternity.
Got your marshmallows ready?
Edited by ringo, : Corrected attribution in quote.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 2:27 PM robertleva has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 2:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 282 of 530 (885784)
04-26-2021 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by robertleva
04-26-2021 2:41 PM


robertleva writes:
I see you in there and I deny you. You will never have me. My faith is in Jesus Christ.
The condescension is strong in this one.
Edited by ringo, : Spoelling.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 2:41 PM robertleva has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 3:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 285 of 530 (885787)
04-26-2021 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by robertleva
04-26-2021 3:02 PM


robertleva writes:
Same answer.
It wasn't a question.
robertleva writes:
You won't have me.
What makes you think I (or my Infernal Master) would want you?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 3:02 PM robertleva has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 3:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 288 of 530 (885790)
04-26-2021 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by robertleva
04-26-2021 3:26 PM


robertleva writes:
My faith teaches about the lies of the enemy and how he deceives as many as will allow it.
You seem determined to get off on the wrong foot with me. Calling somebody a liar and an enemy is not the way to make friends. You'll go a lot farther by pointing out WHY you think something is a lie.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 3:26 PM robertleva has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Phat, posted 04-26-2021 3:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 292 of 530 (885794)
04-26-2021 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Phat
04-26-2021 3:42 PM


Re: Chastizing A New Member
Phat writes:
Although it COULD be that he is addressing your demon.
I take full credit for all of the demons who post through this account - all for one and one for all.
Phat writes:
I would give him a bit more time before writing him off as an insincere critic.
Remember my story sbout the 1972 election? You should, I've told it often enough: the American people chose a smart crook over an honest fool.
So whether robertleva is sincerely wrong or insincerely wrong doesn't much matter to me.
Phat writes:
He calls me "brother" and thats more than you ever did.
I have three real brothers and one late brother. The honor is reserved for them.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Phat, posted 04-26-2021 3:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 297 of 530 (885800)
04-26-2021 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by robertleva
04-26-2021 5:06 PM


robertleva writes:
@ringo: we are just looping now, I urge you to just stop altogether.
quote:
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
I don't stop.
robertleva writes:
I see into you with the eyes of a believer, whether you like it or not.
You're revealing more about yourself than you are about me.
robertleva writes:
I pray for the love and peace of Jesus to fill your heart.
I'm more peaceful (and loving) now than I was when I was a Christian.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 5:06 PM robertleva has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by dwise1, posted 04-27-2021 2:12 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 299 of 530 (885802)
04-26-2021 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by robertleva
04-26-2021 6:24 PM


robertleva writes:
There is a story in the Bible (I am not able to quote chapter verse off the top of my head) where Jesus tells his apostles that if you give the message and someone refuses to listen you simply wipe your feet at their door and move on.
quote:
Matthew 10:14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by robertleva, posted 04-26-2021 6:24 PM robertleva has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 309 of 530 (885818)
04-27-2021 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by robertleva
04-27-2021 7:29 AM


robertleva writes:
But then I see 15000 post count ppl like you and ringo here. Why?
Sixteen years. Thats only about 1000 posts per year, about three per day, not very different from your own posting rate.
robertleva writes:
The only reason you post in here is to do the work of the enemy.
I don't have any enemies. It's too bad that you do.
robertleva writes:
I will not surrender my joy....
You don't seem very joyful.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by robertleva, posted 04-27-2021 7:29 AM robertleva has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by Phat, posted 04-27-2021 3:10 PM ringo has replied

  
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