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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 326 of 391 (885835)
04-27-2021 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Phat
04-27-2021 3:10 PM


Re: Conversations Need Not Be Confrontational
Phat writes:

People at church call me "brother" all the time, but I feel closer to you, AZ, PaulK, Tangle, and even jar (and those of you whom I didnt mention) than I do to the members at church.


I don't think of brotherhood in terms of closeness. I have one brother who lives 350 miles away, I haven't seen him face-to-face in six years and he doesn't have a phone or Internet. But he's my brother.

Phat writes:

I can always tell when you have the Spirit because you speak with an added sense of humor.


The next step is to realize that that "spirit" has nothing to do with any external entity.

Phat writes:

...and yet He weeps as well because so few of His chosen guests even bothered to show up at the banquet.


If there was an (alien over)Lord, my guess is that he would weep over the likes of robertleva.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Phat, posted 04-27-2021 3:10 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 327 of 391 (885836)
04-27-2021 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 318 by robertleva
04-27-2021 3:42 PM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Phat writes:

This thread is about how people of faith pray and personal experiences with God. Why are you unfaithful even here if the entire point of the thread presupposes the audience have faith?


Many of us used to have faith.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by robertleva, posted 04-27-2021 3:42 PM robertleva has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 7:08 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 347 of 391 (885894)
04-28-2021 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by robertleva
04-28-2021 7:08 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
robertleva writes:

I am on your side most likely in most of what you do not like about religion.


Did I say there was something I don't like about religion?

robertleva writes:

I ask you to set aside all this negativity that consumes your posts for a second...


What negativity? When have I ever been anything but nice to you?

robertleva writes:

Is it possible that the evils done in the name of God have stopped you from giving believers a fair chance here on this forum?


I lost my faith in Christ for the same reason I lost my faith in Santa. It had nothing to do with evils done in the name of Santa.

I always give believers a fair chance. I just don't swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers. When they start seeing demons in me, they've blown their fair chance.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 7:08 AM robertleva has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:23 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 350 of 391 (885897)
04-28-2021 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Phat
04-28-2021 12:11 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

Do you treat a Pit Bull whom you encounter the same way you would a puppy or a small friendly dog?


As a matter of fact, I do: Where I used to live there was a pit bull living across the alley. One day when I was coming home, he was out of his yard. As I approached, he was growling at me and barking his head off. I told him calmly (on the outside) that I wasn't going to hurt him. And I didn't.

I talk to squirrels the same way.

Phat writes:

I'm just pointing out the silliness and illogic of relativism.


You're really not, though. You're expressing an opinion, not explaining why your opinion makes any sense.

Phat writes:

And it was not Chutulu or the Spaghetti Monster that I sensed speaking to me inwardly.


How do you know that?

If you hear voices in your head, obviously you're going to associate them with the "God" that you've heard about since birth. But how do you explain the other people who have the same experience as you but associate it with a different God that they have heard about from birth?

Your God is not alone in the race. He isn't even ahead.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 12:11 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 351 of 391 (885898)
04-28-2021 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:09 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

Im never looking for a way to disprove god or Jesus. I am only looking to challenge myself.


Isn't that like challenging yourself to eat a chocolate fudge sundae?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:09 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 356 of 391 (885904)
04-28-2021 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:23 PM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Phat writes:

If there was something you didnt like about the religion you say you came from (and out of) it would be the claim to exclusivity. Which kinda goes hand in hand as to why you left it.


No. It was the emptiness.

Phat writes:

It is your incomplete and prematurely deduced evidence that led you astray. Why on earth would I want that?


You'd want it if you cared about the truth. If you were honest, you would SHOW the incompleteness and prematurity instead of just making false accusations.

Phat writes:

So if a guy like you believes in no external entities, he must either have no belief or believe in himself.


Duh. I have no belief.

Phat writes:

Chance dies not exist.


Of course it does.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:23 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 358 of 391 (885906)
04-28-2021 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:26 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

I'll admit that my Jesus goes easier on me than one you would give me which you found in that dusty old book!


Yes, the Jesus you made up tells you to avoid the straight and narrow.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 361 of 391 (885911)
04-28-2021 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:49 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Yes, the Jesus you made up tells you to avoid the straight and narrow.


Not really.

Yes, really. Literally.

The Jesus in the dusty old book told you what you must do to be saved. The Jesus you made up tells you to scoff at the book.

Phat writes:

He just does not want to give me more than I can handle at the moment.


The widow was told to feed Elijah even though it meant she and her son would die.

Phat writes:

He knows that if He told me to give everything up I would run from Him.


Yes, that's what the rich young ruler did. Jesus didn't change the message to make it more convenient for people who didn't want to do what He said.

Phat writes:

So tell me why Christianity was so empty.
Was it the religion, the history, or the people?


The whole idea of a God is empty. The idea that he would commune with you is emptier.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:49 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Phat, posted 04-29-2021 2:21 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 369 of 391 (885939)
04-29-2021 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Phat
04-29-2021 2:21 AM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

Once I got zapped, I never felt the same since.


You were told you should feel that way and you were eager to feel that way.

Feelings are a slippery thing. We can convince ourselves to feel a certain way. But feelings don't determine reality.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Phat, posted 04-29-2021 2:21 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Phat, posted 04-29-2021 10:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 374 of 391 (885966)
04-30-2021 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Phat
04-29-2021 10:20 PM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

I was only told that Christians had to become born again in order to be genuine.


I don't believe it. I have hardly ever heard a sermon where they didn't tell you how wonderful and joyous it is to be "saved". The hymns do it too.

Phat writes:

But we were taught that actions in and of themselves were simply actions....works, if you will.


You were taught backwards. Faith is only faith. It is only genuine if it is manifested as actions (James 2).

Phat writes:

ringo charges me with making Him up. I didnt write the book, however.


You don't even believe the book, so your Jesus must be made up.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Phat, posted 04-29-2021 10:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:39 PM ringo has replied
 Message 376 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 379 of 391 (885975)
04-30-2021 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Phat
04-30-2021 12:39 PM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

I got saved the first month before I ever even learned the buzzwords and catchphrases.


I don't believe it. You grew up in a society that is so permeated with the buzzwords and catchphrases that you'd have to be deaf and blind not to know them. Did you celebrate Christmas? Did you ever hear Joy to the World? I think you learned from a very early age to associate Jesus with joy.

Phat writes:

And I felt as if she had too much pride and certainty that she and she alone was right about things. Do I come across the same way?


You refuse to consider the possibility that you could be wrong about the "voices". How is that different from Faith?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:39 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 380 of 391 (885976)
04-30-2021 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Phat
04-30-2021 12:52 PM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

You don't even believe the book, so your Jesus must be made up.


Will you stop saying that!

No, I won't. It's the truth. Will you ever stop claiming that your "communion" trumps the dusty old book?

Phat writes:

The only part which I have publicly challenged you on is the idea that all Christians are taught to give everything up.


You haven't challenged me on that. It's what the Bible says. All you're doing is denying Jesus.

Phat writes:

It is simply crazy.


It's crazy if you don't trust God. But as I have pointed out before, there are people who do it. Jesus' disciples did it. The lady with two mites did it. The early church did it (Ananias and Sapphira). Even before Jesus, the widow who fed Elijah did it. Monastic communities have always done it. Even other religions such as Buddhists do it.

So please stop saying it can't be done.

Phat writes:

Besides, why are only we called to do it?


Because Jesus told you to. Why do you need more reason than that?

Because you supposedly believe that God will take care of you.

Phat writes:

Thats not very fair is it.


Of course not. Who promised you a rose garden?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:52 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 387 of 391 (891103)
01-17-2022 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Phat
01-16-2022 4:01 PM


Re: Why You People Think The Way You Do
Phat writes:

One assumption, too, is that GOD has a better grasp of what morality should entail than do humans.


And humans have a better grasp of what morality should entail than do cows? A cow would think it's immoral to eat cows.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Phat, posted 01-16-2022 4:01 PM Phat has seen this message

  
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