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| Author | Topic: Conversations with God | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Phat Member  Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
dwise1 writes: I sense a good deal of honesty in your advice. Even though you claim atheism, I will do well to heed this basic advice. jar has been trying to tell me it for years, but he insults my intelligence too much so I blow him off usually. Believers must be truthful and honest. Believers must always think about what they believe, even question what they believe in order to root out error in their own thinking. But by thinking about and questioning what they believe, they are actively working through and actively thinking about their beliefs which is vital to spiritual growth. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Although it COULD be that he is addressing your demon. I would give him a bit more time before writing him off as an insincere critic. He calls me "brother" and thats more than you ever did.
You get on my case for calling the Bible a "Dusty Old Book".
Robert: I may as well let you know that ringo knows his scripture quite well. He is a bit clueless about Jesus being more than a character in the book, but he does advocate following the "Message" rather than the Messenger. I argue that both are equally important. He used to attend church but became disillusioned when he saw so few Christians doing what Jesus told them to do but, rather, running around casting demons out of people, eating at Dennys, attending prophetic conferences and selling books. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
robertleva writes: Welcome to EvC, Robert. Pull up a stump and set a spell. I resent the notion that somehow atheism is above reproach. It isn't. It deserves the exact same scrutiny we give any faith. You are one of the smart ones that is willing to question themselves. For now, that is enough for me. One thing you will find after watching us all interact is that most of us are critical thinkiers and evidence based learners. Many of thee guys would argue with your assertion that atheism is a belief. They see it as the ultimate non belief. They would claim that all of us are unbelievers in most gods but that they believe in one less than you or I. I learn their arguments and I try and defend mine, but they have caused me to question and agree with some of what is said. I do not doubt that God is real and alive, but it scares me were I to be a good critical thinker and honestly attempt to falsify my belief. I suppose I see it as a slap in the face of Jesus, but critics may argue that if the God I believe in is real, He is tough enough to handle my attempts at falsifying Him. What scares me though is that lots of these guys stopped being believers. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I suppose its time for me to weigh-in to this series of conversations. Robert,I will not take sides here only due to the fact that you say that you will continue to love and pray for anyone whom you see as a tool of the enemy. I will comment publicly about some of the veteran members whom I engage in conversations, debates, and arguments with on nearly a daily basis for many years. I have learned the art of snake charming, and if there are any snakes here in Percys pit they have served to strengthen my own basic arguments which I feel strongly about as well as to challenge some of the PRATTS and ideological dogmas which I picked up through many years of interaction with the local church. So here I go:
robertleva, henceforth known as RL writes: As one who has many Christian friends, some of them well meaning such as yourself, I fully understand where you are coming from. I do not totally agree that we should avoid controversy with other humans,however. Iron sharpens iron. Honestly, brother, there have been times when I got so frustrated with EvC Forum that I was ready to leave...thinking that my time on earth could be better spent elsewhere. One thing that I did find here, however, were (like you said) The fact that this forum is filled with those who have lost their way from faith does not surprise me in the least. There is false doctrine in every aspect of our lives. Every TV show / game / movie / book has completely accepted a false doctrine of Naturalism. Naturalism is taught to every single child in public school in the USA and in most of the private Christian schools as well.It's pretty tough to hear the truth through all that noise. quote:It did surprise me. Still does. There are a number of EvC members who once believed in Jesus Christ as living today and who now regard Him as a cultural myth at best, and an evil cultural meme at worst. So why do I stay? Because I do not see the members here as snakes. They may battle with inner demons, but a case can be made that organized religion here in the United States also battles with these demons and I believe very strongly that we *all* have a spiritual battle within our minds and hearts. Note what one commentator says: What does Ephesians 6:12 mean? Even in this argument, I have some here who disagree with my choice and chosen sources of interpretation. I don't mind being challenged, even if it were Satan himself who led the Forum against me. (I used to think it was, but Jesus told me to pray for EvC Forum just like you say you are going to do. There are many wise minds and good hearts here, and it is for this reason that I hang around. That plus I just like to argue.  Lets pause a moment and listen to one of my favorite songs:
Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: You mentioned how you reserve the honor of the label Brother to your biological siblings. An interesting story. People at church call me "brother" all the time, but I feel closer to you, AZ, PaulK, Tangle, and even jar (and those of you whom I didnt mention) than I do to the members at church. One thing I have learned at EvC is that GOD Himself,(through Jesus and the Holy Spirit) can not only speak through a Donkey but can and does speak quite adeptly through an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic. I can always tell when you have the Spirit because you speak with an added sense of humor. Somehow I imagine that the Lord has a big laugh about all of this.,...and yet He weeps as well because so few of His chosen guests even bothered to show up at the banquet. robertleva writes:
Sixteen years. Thats only about 1000 posts per year, about three per day, not very different from your own posting rate. But then I see 15000 post count ppl like you and ringo here. Why?
robertleva writes:
I don't have any enemies. It's too bad that you do.
The only reason you post in here is to do the work of the enemy. robertleva writes:
You don't seem very joyful. I will not surrender my joy.... If I recall, however, you guys went easy on me for the first couple of years I was here. We often take the gloves off and go toe to toe now...and I would imagine that new members end up scratching their heads as to why we park ourselves in this little corner(Percys Secular Chapel) of the internet and rehash the same arguments (albeit using different words,philosophies and approaches)"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
RL addressing PaulK writes:
OK. Lets revisit my topic. (You will find that I am one of the few who dredge up old topics and revisit them...especially if I started them! I came here to speak to others of faith about prayers and the nature of my experiences with God. It is not my place to try to convince you. I have done my part and I will keep you in my prayers now as I said. So please just move on in peace and love my brother, you are wasting your time I assure you. )
Message 1 Topic Starter writes: For those of you who pray and who believe that you are having a conversation with God (an entity that you believe is living and aware and that is outside of your conscience,strictly speaking)Perhaps you could share some of the dynamics of the prayers, mantras, and conversations. I realize that for some of us this is an important and personal thing, so lets keep the jokes limited to ourselves. As for changing me, I believe that communication with anyone can and does potentially change me a little bit every day. I prefer not to be an old stick in the mud. RL writes: I feel much the same way sometimes. Othet times I feel nothing at all, but I am aware that God is listening. Like Santa Claus, He sees me when I'm sleeping. He knows when Im awake. he knows if Ive been bad or good...so I try for goodness sake! Here is how I pray most often: I start by asking forgiveness for my sins in the name of Jesus. I like to get clean before addressing the Holy Father. Then I pray for whomever has triggered this need in the first place. For example, if I see a homeless person that I cannot directly go out and help, I try to at least say a prayer for them. When I feel the Lord's presence I get an overwhelming feeling that nearly instantly brings tears. It's a complex feeling, a combination of joy, relief and awe and it is very powerful.
RL writes: Ask anyone here how strong my faith is. They never worry about my faith. They are more concerned with my daily actions. our original post was asking about how we as individuals pray and what our own personal experiences with God have been like. I absolutely loved this idea for a topic! But here has been none of that discussion at all...not even from you the original poster. Can I ask you why not? I almost feel like you are standing at the water's edge, just a little too cautious to jump fully into faith. I ask you to jump right into the water and fully embrace Jesus. He will carry your burdens, but you have to give it to Him! Do not let anyone here make you feel any shame for your faith. Be a proud Christian and shrug off these meat hooks that the enemy is trying to get into you."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Robert, check out this link. Message 1
Also this one. Message 55 Dr.Lennox is also one of my favorite apologists. I will say this, however. The peanut gallery here is collectively as good as any apologetic argument online. If I ever become an apologist, I will have them to thank for it. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo in 2013 writes: And for good reason. Do you treat a Pit Bull whom you encounter the same way you would a puppy or a small friendly dog? Do you treat a known thief the same way you treat a friend? Unbelievers tend to treat all beliefs equally. Believers often don't.I'm not saying that Jesus never commanded us to do anything other than try. I'm just pointing out the silliness and illogic of relativism. Years ago when I got saved, it was not due to wanting to be accepted into a popular group. And it was not Chutulu or the Spaghetti Monster that I sensed speaking to me inwardly.
It was not Allah. Nor the Apologist. Nor a Saskatchewan Contrarian. I suppose you could argue that it was simply myself...Freuds Super Ego, perhaps. Perhaps my epiphany was finding myself rather than Jesus. But to this day I pray to Him. Sometimes I resist it. I believe that He knows my inner thoughts anyway, so perhaps in my times of resistence/rebellion, He is still providing a teachable moment. There are many imitators and One Original as far as I believe."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I'll admit that my Jesus goes easier on me than one you would give me which you found in that dusty old book!
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I wont defend them (religious people) We do tend to try and move goalposts in an attempt to defend our faith. Whether this is intentional or not, I cannot say. I for one seek to be as honest as I can possibly be while still preserving my beliefs. Maybe thats our collective issue. Critical thinkers are taught to attempt to falsify. It scares us. Makes us feel weak. Indecisive.
I was always taught to stand for something or I would fall for anything. I need to find the courage to stand and having done all..to stand. Without lying to myself. Its like juggling chainsaws. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
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