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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1308 of 1406 (881871)
09-02-2020 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1307 by Phat
09-02-2020 3:57 PM


Re: God does not simply know everyone.
Think Phat.

In you example those told to depart did know Jesus. It was Jesus that did not know them.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1307 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 3:57 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1309 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 6:35 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1310 of 1406 (881873)
09-02-2020 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1309 by Phat
09-02-2020 6:35 PM


Re: God does not simply know everyone.
Phat writes:

This gets back to your belief that many of the goats are Christians.

Not quite Phat; ALL of the Goats are followers of Jesus, proto-Christians.

Phat writes:

If the goats were Christians whom He never knew, why would they even have the importation to do anything?

LOL.

It 'splains it in the story Phat. Read the story. It is directly explained.

Phat writes:

I argue, however, that it takes that inner awareness of the reality of His existence to even give me the desire to share this stuff with others, (arguing endlessly with some )

Share what stuff Phat? Preaching is worthless. It is only doing that has any value and the value is based in what is done, not why it was done or who it was done for or any of the other nonsense that the Apologist Shils market.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1309 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 6:35 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1312 of 1406 (881875)
09-02-2020 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1311 by Phat
09-02-2020 7:57 PM


Re: God does not simply know everyone.
Phat writes:

My point is that if the goats had never met Jesus, at worst they would be catering to favored people and not to the needy folks and would not even have a clue who Jesus was or who God was...they would simply find themselves at this judgement day and watch the sheep get blessed.

LOL

But that is NOT what the story says, is it?

Again, like all the Apologists you just make up shit to deny what is actually written and then claim to be Biblical Christians.

You and the CCoI are so pathetic.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1311 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 7:57 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1313 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 8:25 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1314 of 1406 (881877)
09-02-2020 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1313 by Phat
09-02-2020 8:25 PM


Re: God does not simply know everyone.
And as always you change the subject to avoid actually admitting what is actually written in the Bible.

You can't follow a topic or address what is presented to you and can only continue to deny reality and instead either change the subject or run away.

Pathetic.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1313 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 8:25 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1315 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 10:38 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1316 of 1406 (881881)
09-03-2020 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1315 by Phat
09-03-2020 10:38 AM


Re: Returning to The Topic
Phat writes:

You will argue that if "the God" has foreknowledge that humans will end up choosing unwisely and thus ending up damned, then that God is evil and should be opposed.

Almost.

If "the God" having foreknowledge that humans will end up choosing unwisely still creates the human that thus ends up damned, then that God is pure evil and must be condemned and opposed.

But everything in the refutation you quoted is just classic conman spiel from classic conmen; utterly stupid and should be laughed off the stage if tried.

quote:
Does it mean to be able to choose anything--even something contrary to one's nature; or, does it mean being able to choose something consistent with one's nature?
God is free to do whatever he desires. God is not free to act in a manner contrary to his nature.

That is simply classic attempts to avoid and get around reality, reason and honesty.

Edited by jar, : fix quote box


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 1317 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 11:16 AM jar has responded
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1320 of 1406 (881893)
09-03-2020 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1317 by Phat
09-03-2020 11:16 AM


Re: Returning to The Topic
Phat writes:

And when you say "that God is pure evil and must be condemned and opposed"
I think in terms of Satan. God is good. Satan isn't. But what confuses me about your Theology is you and ringo insisting that the metaphorical snake told the truth. Everyone knows that satan has no truth in him.

No Phat, the Apologists try to market that but it is NOT what is said in the Bible.

The God in Genesis 1 might be said to be all good but is also not omniscient and is aloof and totally distant from and unconnected from all of what is created.

The God in Genesis 2&3 does lie or avoid telling the truth while the Serpent always tells the truth throughout the story. That God is also not omniscient.

The issue is that you do not accept the Bible as actually being authoritative or even saying what is actually written and insist on creating the God and Bible you desire.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1328 of 1406 (882861)
10-22-2020 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1327 by Phat
10-22-2020 10:10 AM


Re: Introducing An Old Argument Revisited
Phat writes:

Why must certain foreknowledge eliminate our responsibility?

LOL

That has been explained to you a brazillion times Phat.

If God is the creator of all that is seen and unseen then God is responsible for all that it created.

If God is the creator of all that is seen and unseen and God has foreknowledge then God is responsible for all that is done by what it created.

If God is the creator of all that is seen and unseen and God has foreknowledge then God is responsible for all that is done by what it created and if anything created is then damned then that God is also evil and unworthy of anything but contempt.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1327 by Phat, posted 10-22-2020 10:10 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1330 by Phat, posted 10-22-2020 10:52 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1331 of 1406 (882864)
10-22-2020 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1330 by Phat
10-22-2020 10:52 AM


Think Phat. Try it. You might like it.
Phat writes:

I challenge thatg assumption. Is a parent responsible for their childs behavior beyond the age of accountability? Is that Grandparent responsible for how their child raises their grandchildren? Why then must God be responsible for our behavior and our choices?

Do you even know what "all that is, seen and unseen" includes? All that is. Good, bad, sad, happy. All that is.

Phat writes:

Foreknowledge is irrelevant. It is quite simply none of our business what God knows and when.

It is relevant to those Christians that claim God has foreknowledge.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1389 of 1406 (885999)
05-01-2021 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1387 by Phat
05-01-2021 1:16 PM


Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
Phat writes:

IF Some humans will be sheep and some humans will be goats (as implied by scripture) does it matter WHEN GOD knows and judges them?

And you still refuse or unable to read what I post it seems.

Are you really so incapable or reading or comprehension that you cannot understand the difference between before creating and after creating?

Are you really that dumb Phat or are you simply unwilling to think?


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1387 by Phat, posted 05-01-2021 1:16 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1392 of 1406 (886006)
05-02-2021 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1390 by Phat
05-02-2021 2:38 AM


Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
LOL

No Phat, you are just being willfully stupid.

Sorry but that is a fact.

You have no point and it is not that you fail to see; it is that you refuse to see.

Is there a time before something is created and after something is created?

Edited by jar, : add last line


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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 1393 by Phat, posted 05-02-2021 6:36 AM jar has responded
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1397 of 1406 (886011)
05-02-2021 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1393 by Phat
05-02-2021 6:36 AM


Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
No Phat, you know that is not true and has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1398 of 1406 (886012)
05-02-2021 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1396 by anglagard
05-02-2021 7:02 AM


Re: "Yup You Betcha" - Ballard Bitters
I actually have no idea what my IQ is but I did go to school with some really really smart folk and in our junior or senior year they snuck into the office at night and pulled the IQ files for all the kids in our class.

They have told me that my IQ was "scary" but whether it was scary high or scary low is unknown.


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 Message 1396 by anglagard, posted 05-02-2021 7:02 AM anglagard has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1401 of 1406 (886016)
05-02-2021 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1399 by Phat
05-02-2021 10:13 AM


gotta give up one or more attributes of God if you don't what an evil God
You are still refusing to actually address the argument Phat.

Satan is irrelevant.

Lucifer is irrelevant.

Judgement is irrelevant.

The issue is "the creation".

If God has foreknowledge and creates a critter that is going to hell then that God is evil.

Period.

Full stop.

It is impossible to have a God that has foreknowledge and is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen, if anything is ever condemned to hell.

But remember, there is absolutely no reason that God should not be evil.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1399 by Phat, posted 05-02-2021 10:13 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1404 of 1406 (886019)
05-02-2021 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1403 by Phat
05-02-2021 11:04 AM


Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
Phat writes:

So if the snake were simply a plot device and all evil is within us and God is complete rather than just "good", The only real charge that we have from Him is to choose this day whom we will serve.

No Phat. Whom we will serve is irrelevant, immaterial, unimportant, silly, divisive, counter productive and worthless.

The charge is "what will we do!"


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1403 by Phat, posted 05-02-2021 11:04 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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