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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
Phat
Member
Posts: 15245
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 376 of 382 (885970)
04-30-2021 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by ringo
04-30-2021 11:21 AM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
ringo writes:

You don't even believe the book, so your Jesus must be made up.

Will you stop saying that!The only part which I have publicly challenged you on is the idea that all Christians are taught to give everything up. It is simply crazy. Besides, why are only we called to do it? Thats not very fair is it.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by ringo, posted 04-30-2021 11:21 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by AZPaul3, posted 04-30-2021 1:30 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 378 by anglagard, posted 04-30-2021 1:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 380 by ringo, posted 04-30-2021 2:53 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5814
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 377 of 382 (885973)
04-30-2021 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Phat
04-30-2021 12:52 PM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
Besides, why are only we called to do it? Thats not very fair is it.

Phat! Wake up! That's a creed of your chosen religion. You embrace a religion or you leave it.

Cafeteria christianity? Makes belief easy. Just another team built in your image to root for on Sunday.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2269
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 8.1


(1)
Message 378 of 382 (885974)
04-30-2021 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Phat
04-30-2021 12:52 PM


Read the Book(s)
quote:
You don't even believe the book, so your Jesus must be made up.

Phat writes:

Will you stop saying that!

If you want BLM to disappear, stop shooting unarmed minorities under no pretense. If you want Antifa to disappear, stop being a fascist. If you want Ringo, jar and I to stop criticizing you concerning your severely limited understanding of Christianity, read the Bible.

The only part which I have publicly challenged you on is the idea that all Christians are taught to give everything up. It is simply crazy. Besides, why are only we called to do it? Thats not very fair is it.

Obviously, to those who know, such as jar and Ringo, you have not read nor understand Matthew. Quotes like this are a dead giveaway.

Look, Christianity is your self-proclaimed religion, don't you think it is incumbent on any believer to *actually* know what they proclaim to believe in?


The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing.

If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do.

Republican = death


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by jar, posted 04-30-2021 3:01 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18994
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 379 of 382 (885975)
04-30-2021 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Phat
04-30-2021 12:39 PM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

I got saved the first month before I ever even learned the buzzwords and catchphrases.


I don't believe it. You grew up in a society that is so permeated with the buzzwords and catchphrases that you'd have to be deaf and blind not to know them. Did you celebrate Christmas? Did you ever hear Joy to the World? I think you learned from a very early age to associate Jesus with joy.

Phat writes:

And I felt as if she had too much pride and certainty that she and she alone was right about things. Do I come across the same way?


You refuse to consider the possibility that you could be wrong about the "voices". How is that different from Faith?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:39 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18994
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 380 of 382 (885976)
04-30-2021 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Phat
04-30-2021 12:52 PM


Re: Why Pressie Ringo Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

You don't even believe the book, so your Jesus must be made up.


Will you stop saying that!

No, I won't. It's the truth. Will you ever stop claiming that your "communion" trumps the dusty old book?

Phat writes:

The only part which I have publicly challenged you on is the idea that all Christians are taught to give everything up.


You haven't challenged me on that. It's what the Bible says. All you're doing is denying Jesus.

Phat writes:

It is simply crazy.


It's crazy if you don't trust God. But as I have pointed out before, there are people who do it. Jesus' disciples did it. The lady with two mites did it. The early church did it (Ananias and Sapphira). Even before Jesus, the widow who fed Elijah did it. Monastic communities have always done it. Even other religions such as Buddhists do it.

So please stop saying it can't be done.

Phat writes:

Besides, why are only we called to do it?


Because Jesus told you to. Why do you need more reason than that?

Because you supposedly believe that God will take care of you.

Phat writes:

Thats not very fair is it.


Of course not. Who promised you a rose garden?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Phat, posted 04-30-2021 12:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 381 of 382 (885977)
04-30-2021 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by anglagard
04-30-2021 1:40 PM


Re: Read the Book(s)
There are lots of different Jesus' in the Bible; Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels and Jesus of John and Jesus as found in the rantings from Patmos and Jesus before his prophesy failed and Jesus reworked after the failed prophesy and beer run Jesus and low country bowl Jesus on the beach, Jesus the vandal causing a riot in the synagogue ...

But there is a common theme throughout all the different Jesus' created by the story tellers and that is that there is no Jesus that tells his crew that all will be easy and pleasant and that they will all live lives filled with joy and have a happy ending.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by anglagard, posted 04-30-2021 1:40 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4036
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 382 of 382 (886064)
05-04-2021 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by AZPaul3
04-28-2021 10:13 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
AZPaul3 writes:

But, I submit to you, the decision is being made in a fact-based way. We are talking a fact-based decision model. Or should be if you care to make a more successful decision. As in one that actually works out since it was planned to foster its own success.

Fully agreed.

Both methods are "fact based."

An evidence-based fact takes into account objective evidence (here, one should ensure it is "objective" and not their own opinion.)
A feelings-based fact takes into account subjective feelings (here, one should ensure it is their own opinion of their own feelings and not objective evidence of other people's feelings - even if those others are a majority)

They are both facts, but they use different methodology to obtain them.

Evidence facts - obtained through peer-reviewed scientific method, if possible.
Feelings facts - obtained through personal opinion of your own feelings, if possible.

Two extremely different (even opposite?) methods... which is why I'm making the distinction between "evidence-facts" and "feelings-facts" instead of just saying they are both "fact-based" methods.

And, no, I do not recognize a feelings-based decision method using any facts at all. As soon as some pesky fact (other than the fact that you got the feels) pops up it poisons everything and crushes it down like a black hole into a fact-based method. Instant collapse.

If I feel happy, and I tell you I'm happy - it is a fact that I'm happy (as long as I'm not lying.)
Regardless of however many endorphins you may or may not be able to accurately measure in my system.

(Number of endorphins is made up because I don't know the proper measurement to use or how much anyway.)
If "the average person" requires 100 endorphins to call themselves happy - it does not mean someone is not happy if they only have 5 endorphins.
If the person with 5 endorphins says they are sad - then they can possibly be classified as "an average person."
If the person with 5 endorphins says they are happy - then they are happy, and simply classified as "not an average person."

Feelings are feelings.
And the person holding them, and judging them is the be-all and end-all judge.
The result of that personal judgement is a fact.
-taking into account that they are a reasonable, honest person.

Anything less ends up with people telling other people how they feel.
Which is, simply, ridiculous.

Edited by Stile, : Added final two sentences


This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by AZPaul3, posted 04-28-2021 10:13 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
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