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Author Topic:   Squish
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 10 of 28 (886065)
05-04-2021 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mike Holland
05-02-2021 11:52 PM


Your head would catch up with your feet and you would be concertinaed, go “squish”, and arrive at the event horizon as a thin pancake. In fact this would happen so fast that you would go “splat” as you pass through the event horizon.
I'm not so sure. You are looking at a Kerr solution since the black hole is rotating. That means, IIRC, there is a hyper-photon sphere just outside the event horizon. Photons trapped in orbit about the black hole without falling in and without the momentum to escape. This, I would think, would give you a really nice instant tan before you are disintegrated into high energy plasma the next instant.
As an observer I would expect to see you slow to imperceptibly slow motion as you very slowly burst into flame and are consumed, slowly, over days, as your pain contorted image fades into the far infrared. Though you would have to follow the image around as it too orbits the black hole at incredible speeds due to frame dragging.
Under your time dilation scenario, by the time your head was ready to enter the splat zone, the rest of you has already been dissolved and has been dragged on while still millimeters off the event horizon. There is nothing there for the incoming new plasma to splat on.
Maybe you were right. The slow, yet instant, flash of your being sublimated from person to plasma, sped across the scene around the orbit might very well look like a slow motion splat except this splat would soon span the entire orbit.
To splat or not to splat? Too many variables.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mike Holland, posted 05-02-2021 11:52 PM Mike Holland has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Mike Holland, posted 05-05-2021 6:26 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 14 by Percy, posted 05-06-2021 2:47 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 12 of 28 (886097)
05-05-2021 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Mike Holland
05-05-2021 6:26 PM


Squish
Except we have quite a viable set of explanations with at least some evidence of what relativistic jets are in actively feeding galactic nuclei. Incoming matter is ripped to its constituent particles and into huge electrically charged fields of plasma that are shunted to the axial jets by the super strong magnetic fields that surround the central black hole.
Astrophysical jet - Wikipedia
If you're into the hard details here is one treatment (detailed pdf):
Page Not Found! : Department of Physics and Astronomy: Purdue University
Your explanation doesn't seem as complete. Magnetic moment seems a better motive force than just an undefined squish with polar squirting. God, I loved writing that.
Anyway, I still don't see it, Mike.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Mike Holland, posted 05-05-2021 6:26 PM Mike Holland has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Mike Holland, posted 05-06-2021 2:11 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 19 by Mike Holland, posted 05-11-2021 7:43 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 16 of 28 (886116)
05-06-2021 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Percy
05-06-2021 2:47 PM


Aren't tidal forces near a black hole so great that long before you reached the event horizon you would already be spaghettified?
Depends on the size of the BH.
In your 10 solar mass example, yes. You would be crushed well prior to the event horizon. My reading indicates that super massive BHs have shear forces most prominent inside the EH than out, so it is possible to cross the horizon before the crush begins.
quote:
The point at which tidal forces destroy an object or kill a person will depend on the black hole's size. For a supermassive black hole, such as those found at a galaxy's center, this point lies within the event horizon, so an astronaut may cross the event horizon without noticing any squashing and pulling, although it remains only a matter of time, as once inside an event horizon, falling towards the center is inevitable.[8] For small black holes whose Schwarzschild radius is much closer to the singularity, the tidal forces would kill even before the astronaut reaches the event horizon.[9][10] For example, for a black hole of 10 Sun masses[note 2] the above-mentioned rod breaks at a distance of 320 km, well outside the Schwarzschild radius of 30 km. For a supermassive black hole of 10,000 Sun masses, it will break at a distance of 3200 km, well inside the Schwarzschild radius of 30,000 km.
Spaghettification - Wikipedia
Doesn't matter, apparently, because in an actively feeding BH the photon sphere and magnetic force lines thick with plasma can start literally parsecs from the BH. Fry your noodles first before you make spaghetti.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Percy, posted 05-06-2021 2:47 PM Percy has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 18 of 28 (886118)
05-06-2021 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Percy
05-06-2021 3:28 PM


Re: Puzzler
How is this possible?
Relativistic effects. You already know the cite so I'll leave it out for the fun of others.
First one is cute. I liked it.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 20 of 28 (886256)
05-12-2021 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Mike Holland
05-11-2021 7:43 AM


Re: Squish
So there is currently no real theory as to how the jets are formed. I am sticking to my story as a viable explanation, but need to think a bit more about the affects of space drag.
That's why I said we have quite a viable set of explanations with at least some evidence of what relativistic jets are in actively feeding galactic nuclei and Wiki confirmed this. We do have quite a set of various explanations for the jets.
The one I cited is one explanation (key phrase) with some evidenced physics. There are others if you go looking for them.
Do you have such an explanatory paper? Note the scholarship involved with field definitions, math and the data analysed.
We do have evidenced-based hypotheses on the jets. This is not an unstudied field. Those proposals are out there now. If you do not have a paper of comparable scholarship to present then you cannot compete at that level. You will not be heard.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Mike Holland, posted 05-11-2021 7:43 AM Mike Holland has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Mike Holland, posted 05-13-2021 2:53 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 22 of 28 (886272)
05-13-2021 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Mike Holland
05-13-2021 2:53 AM


Re: Squish
Has anyone ever calculated matter falling into a black hole and taken pressure into account?
I wouldn't know. I'm a rank amateur at this stuff. A very dangerous one because I actually know how to spell cmb.
But this is exactly the kind of proposal you should research, design, justify and present.
No small order.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Mike Holland, posted 05-13-2021 2:53 AM Mike Holland has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Mike Holland, posted 05-13-2021 6:16 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 24 of 28 (886291)
05-13-2021 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Mike Holland
05-13-2021 6:16 PM


Re: Squish
Really? And how do you spell cmb?
Brain farts are so annoying. The answer is right there on the edge of my mind just out of reach. Give it time. It'll dawn on me in a few hours here.
If it's math help you want then this forum is not your best choice.
Try a math forum like Math & Science Forum | Math Forums.
They have a physics forum where you may be able to pose your problem.
If you don't get too wrapped up in that using up all your time and you're looking for a little diversion, then come on back here to EvC, grab a topic, and opine with the rest of us younguns.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Mike Holland, posted 05-13-2021 6:16 PM Mike Holland has replied

Replies to this message:
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