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Author | Topic: Gun Control III | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I know how you want to argue that no guns should be banned, but explain to us why a 9mm couldn't achieve the same level of whatever it is you wanted from a gun? Actually a 9mm can do as much damage as an AR-15. The stories as usual are simply written to be sensational and reality be damned. Long barreled weapons will be more powerful than short barreled weapons but that is not limited to the AR-15 platform. And the reality is that long barreled weapons are simply not used in many instances at all. I'm not opposed to restriction if they are actually based on evidence or even reasoned argument but so far those two factors seem pretty much absent.My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I checked the local news for the latest info about that Colorado Springs shooting. It took me awhile to find it as there were at least two and maybe as many as three other shootings locally that had happened since then. Turns out the shooter, known only as "Junior" always carried a handgun and was described by others as "nothing unusual about him".
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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'Nothing unusual' about carrying a handgun. What a fucked up country you guys live in.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Aw, did I say mean things about your little precious?
--Percy
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5930 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
It varies from state to state since most gun laws are state laws.
The entire gun issue has also been heavily politicized, especially by the National Rifle Association (NRA -- which is not doing as well now that it has lost its Russian funding). But in my opinion the really fucked up aspect are the open-carry laws. One female friend posted a photo of a guy buying groceries wearing a gun belt with holstered sidearms on either side and other handguns strapped to his legs and ankles. This was how he walks around in his daily business! She was trying to imagine how freakishly small his penis must be to drive him to over-compensate so drastically. One aspect of open-carry is that in some open-carry states you can not long visibly carry handguns, but also long guns (eg, rifles, assault rifles -- see Open carry in the US). I seem to recall that one recent mass shooting in a supermarket where the shooter walked in openly carrying his assault rifle and then opened fire. The thing is that openly and visibly carrying an assault rifle into a store is completely legal in that state (Colorado, I seem to recall), so anyone observing him walking from his car to the store with an assault rifle would not raise any alarms (it is not allowed in New York, Illinois, Tennessee, Florida, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and other territories). In such a situation, you do not know that you are in mortal danger until he opens fire; because of the open carry laws you literally cannot see it coming. Interestingly, California's stricter gun laws date back to the late 1960's under Republican rule (I think Reagan was Governor at the time). All it took was the publication of photographs of heavily armed Black Panthers. As you said, fucked up.
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
PaulK writes: Or he shot them in the head after they were down. We just don’t know. But we know much more than nothing, and while your scenario is possible, it is far from most likely. The 100% fatality rate is most easily achieved with an AR-15 style weapon, as we know from past mass shootings where it is very often the weapon of choice. We also know this style is very, very popular, so just statistically it is very likely. The police are releasing very few details, but another likelihood is that if all the victims were shot in the head that that is heinous enough to have already leaked out. If you were only arguing that we should postpone final judgment about the weapon used then I would agree with you. Arguing that "we just don't know" as if our ignorance were too great to draw inferences doesn't hold up. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
dwise1 writes: In such a situation, you do not know that you are in mortal danger until he opens fire; because of the open carry laws you literally cannot see it coming. My standard operating procedure is to leave the vicinity whenever a gun is visible. For example, we were dining at a sidewalk cafe recently when a patrol officer strolled by and then lingered to chat with a couple patrons. We decided it was time to visit the restrooms. I have no answer for concealed weapons. I know I'm more cautious than your average person. For example, I was completely alone in wearing a mask in the supermarket for a few weeks a year ago March when even the CDC and WHO and Dr. Fauci were saying that if you weren't sick they wouldn't do any good. The mask I wore, then and now, was an N95. The advice at one time was that the general public didn't need N95's, but that was also revealed to be false (it didn't take a genius to figure this out - the information about aerosols has been around a while) and the advice changed to double mask or, if you could find them, wear an N95. My actions are driven by a desire to keep risk to a minimum with as little disruption to normal life as possible. What action and whether action is necessary at all is part of an equation that can only be approximate as I balance level of threat against the degree of effort necessary to neutralize or reduce it. The presence of a gun increases the possibility of injury or death. The mask advice we were receiving early last year was just obvious nonsense that also didn't take a genius to figure out, as has since been revealed, and since I had N95's they were the obvious choice over cloth or surgical masks. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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jar writes: Actually a 9mm can do as much damage as an AR-15. Maybe a 9mm *can* do as much damage as an AR-15, but it generally doesn't. According to dwise1's recent message, there's an enormous difference in muzzle velocity:
dwise1 writes:
The ammo for both weapons does tumble after hitting its target, but the AR-15 style weapon also has the incredible shock wave. To kill a person with a 9mm would require enough accuracy to hit or at least come very near vital parts of the anatomy such as heart or lungs or spinal chord or aorta and so forth. To do that six times against people presumably trying to escape is a big ask. To kill a person with an AR-15 only requires hitting the torso, not a big ask six times even with escaping targets. The damage would be devastating. --Percy
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What is missing in the US (and many other nations) is that we are not addressing the root cause of violence.
The gun is NOT the problem, it is the society and lack of social support. Saying that AR-15 type rifles are the problem is absolutely as stupid as claiming the election was stolen. Personally, I find the AR platform ugly and really unpleasant and so it's not something I own or shoot. But to say that it is more dangerous than other platforms is at best sophomoric. It's not concealable. It's not something that is effective in close quarters or crowds. It's a distance weapon rather than a BBD (Bad Breath Distance) choice. It's not used in very many of the reported shooting. But most of all, it does not address the root causes of violence. It is an easy cop-out similar to the Salvation Get Otta Hell Free card and so a feel good position for folk that are unable or unwilling to think.My Website: My Website
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yawn.
Try to actually think Percy. Who knows, you might even like it.My Website: My Website
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jar writes:
The problem is a society that wants guns. The gun is NOT the problem, it is the society and lack of social support."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
It's not a "platform' IT'S A GUN!
You know that revisionism is at work when they start changing the words.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What caliber ammo is used in AR-15 type rifles? What is the difference between the two basic calibers? What type bullets are used in those two calibers of ammo? How man people are killed in the US every year by being shot with an AR-15 type rifle? What caliber of ammo and type of bullet was used in each of those cases?
Banning AR-15 style rifles is an easy but stupid tactic that has absolutely no effect on the root causes of violence.My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
whenever you start sounding arrogant, its a sign that your fleshly entitlement issues are at work. Do try and be humble. You might even like it.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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jar writes: What caliber ammo is used in AR-15 type rifles? What is the difference between the two basic calibers? What type bullets are used in those two calibers of ammo? How man people are killed in the US every year by being shot with an AR-15 type rifle? What caliber of ammo and type of bullet was used in each of those cases? You think these esoteric distinctions actually matter? THEY'RE GUNS! Are you insane?
Banning AR-15 style rifles is an easy but stupid tactic that has absolutely no effect on the root causes of violence. I completely agree, you need to ban GUNS, not brands, not calibers, not sub-categories of 'platforms'. Take guns out of circulation.It's utterly crazy. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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