Gun Control III

What caliber ammo is used in AR-15 type rifles? What is the difference between the two basic calibers? What type bullets are used in those two calibers of ammo? How man people are killed in the US every year by being shot with an AR-15 type rifle? What caliber of ammo and type of bullet was used in each of those cases?Banning AR-15 style rifles is an easy but stupid tactic that has absolutely no effect on the root causes of violence.

Well readily available free medical and mental health in local communities, increased economic parity, improved child care, higher minimum wages, revised tax system, smaller local neighborhood schools, changes to the concept of policing, decriminalization and nationalization of all current illicit drugs and giving them away for free though local health clinics, legalized abortions in all 50 states would make a good start.

First, understand that the right to bear arms is a Constitutional Protected fact just like the Right of Freedom of Religion or Freedom of Speech or any of the other similar "Rights" enumerated in our Constitution.That does not mean that any of those rights are unlimited or illimitable.But it does mean that any limits we choose to apply to those rights must have a reasoned basis founded in facts not misinformation.While we may not like those facts we need to recognize that such facts do exist.The proper way to limit the Right to Bear Arms in the US is twofold; first through the legal system and then through education, enforcement of the laws and mitigating the root cause of violence.

The evidence is out there Percy, real evidence not infotainment.The relative deadliness of various ammo is pretty much irrelevant. There simply isn't much difference.The difference between a longer barrel and a shorter barrel is significant.But to claim an AR-15 is more deadly than a M1 or AK-47 or SKS or AR-10 or and of the literally hundreds of other rifles is just flat wrong.But it is an easy cop-out feel good position for those who are unwilling or unable to think.Violence is a problem.But looking at those states and cities with the most restrictive gun laws doesn't show that the laws prevent any shootings.So let's look at reality.What do we see in the US today when it comes to gun laws?Do we see cities and states eliminating the right to bear arms?What are the legislatures and courts saying?

The good guys with guns are obeying the laws and working very hard to promote actually addressing root causes rather than stupid stuff like more utterly dumb gun laws.The problem is complicated.First, there is no reasonable way to get rid of guns in the US in anything short of a few centuries.Second, it took at least a half century for the US to get this fucked up and it will take at least that long to fix things.The root causes of violence are what needs to be addressed.AbE: what can be done as a start but only a start.The solution is the same that it has always been.What can be done is simple.First, get rid of all of the mega-schools, put schools back in the neighborhood and small enough that every teacher knows every student by name and no class has more than a dozen kids. But that means no big football stadium. And smaller classes mean more teachers and that means higher taxes.Second, start active discipline at the earliest stages. If a child is a bully or disruptive then the child gets sent home and provided true counseling. But there is no one at home and both parents (when there is two parents) are working and won't get paid so can't come home.Third federalize drugs and provide them for free in neighborhood health clinics. But the WAR on DRUGS!Fourth enact universal health care. But if that happens the drug companies will all stop researching cures. After all no other country makes medicines.Fifth stop glorifying violence and shooting. But John Wick and Reacher...Sixth, bring back shooting sports in the middle and upper grades. What, teach kids to shoot?Seventh, support unionization and narrowing the gap between rich and poor. Make a two income family a choice rather than necessity. But that's SOCIALISM!And understand that it took about fifty years to screw stuff up this much so it will take another half century or more to fix it.

Edited by jar, : see AbE

They don't magically get in the had of bad guys just like cars don't magically get in the hands of drunk drivers.The issues are very similar. People do stupid things.People when under stress do lots of stupid things.The issue is violence in America.What needs to be addressed are the root causes of so many US problems.Sure, reasonable laws will help. A reasonable and universal Red Flag law would be a big help but it too is nearly impossible in today's fucked up litigious US society. We have never funded mental health just as we have never funded health services or education or a whole host of other things.There really are Big Problems right here in River City.

Exactly.We created this mess.And as long as the local voters keep electing assholes nothing will change.A law that is not enforced or a law that is unenforceable is just stupid.But you are wrong about Ghost Guns.Ghost Guns are guns without a serial number.Well, up until 1968 serial numbers were not required on any US manufactured guns. Some manufactures had long added serial numbers bu not all manufacturers and some manufacturers had serial numbers on some of their gun models but not all of their models.Even today, the law only states that commercial businesses that mass produce firearms must add serial numbers. As is so often the case other nations have been way ahead of the US when it comes to serial numbers. In many countries not only was the firearm serialized but in addition the key components like the barrels and slide in and semi-automatic will carry matching identification stamps. In revolvers the frame would have a serial number and the cylinder also matching identifications.Ghost guns are certainly legal today.BUT... just for fun. The manufacturers even today are not required to create a permanent record of the serial numbers and in fact have often issued the same serial number to different models. Colt is a great example. They have a website where you can look up a gun by the serial number (at least they did, Now that CZ owns Colt things may change.) When you look up a serial number you often find that a given serial number was used on several different models made in several different years.

Edited by jar, .

So how do you go about making such a start?What is the model, method, process, procedure or mechanism that might work?Let me point at a couple examples.We have two neighboring countries. Both have very similar guns laws and in fact Mexico has gone as far that there is only one gun store in the whole country.But violence in the two nations is quite different.What is different is the social structure.A big factor is, just as it is in the US, the really high cost AND profit in illicit drugs.What if the US simply Nationalized all illicit drugs, took over manufacture of the illicit drugs and made them available free through a system of neighborhood health clinics? The US could redirect all the money spent nationally and locally in the war on drugs to pay for the production, distribution and health care system.Sounds good, BUT guess who would be the biggest opponents of such a system?If you said the police you'd likely win a prize.

No, not saying either of those. Read what I write.

There is a statistic that you good folk can check and verify that is interesting.Those private citizens in the US that are licensed to carry a weapon (the actual license varies from state to state and might be limited to just concealed carry or both concealed and open carry) rather than those who legally can do so under the recent so call Constitutional Carry laws or simply carry irregardless of any laws are about the most law abiding folk in the country. More law abiding than the police and certainly more law abiding than politicians as populations.They are registered and finger printed and have had to pass admittedly far too simple tests and paid a fee that must be renewed at some interval. Almost all states keep records on both felonies and misdemeanors committed by the state licensed carriers and those licenses are subject to revocation.These folk invest in training and knowing the laws and in practicing.

LOLFirst, why?Second, what are the big ones?

LOLWhat are weapons of war? And quite frankly I do have some weapons of war that were actually used in wars, but I don't think you actually have a clue what I do have.Much of the so called weapons of war are just a matter of the utter ignorance of the people using the terms.For example, one of the actual weapons of war that I own is a semi-automatic pistol chambered in 32 acp. It was a GI bring back most likely from either North Africa or Italy.The problem is people use the terms and end up just like Biden making really really really stupid statements.And buy the way, I actually know what weapons I do have unlike either of you.

Again, that is simply incorrect. While I personally think most of the guns folk get their panties in a wad over are so butt-fugly I would only use them on a moonless night while wearing a mask for fear of anyone laughing at me, an AR15 also does make a suitable target or hunting rifle.The issue is violence, not some particular platform.But let's talk specifics.The Ar15 is often mentioned. Did you know that the most common caliber cartridge for an AR15 platform is a 22 caliber? But it can also be chambered in a whole variety of other calibers.So if you want to write a law banning weapons of war, what would be the wording?

Edited by jar, : appalin spalli

LOLAnd again you are simply being utterly stupid.There are over 400 million firearms in the US today. It's fine to say stupid stuff like " The US would be a much better place if 99% of firearms were removed. They have no place in a civilized society." and even if that were true, just how do you go about getting rid of them?If you actually read what I've posted in this thread, the issue is not gun laws, it's thinking utterly stupid gun laws would actually do something and ignoring root cause mitigation.Try to think of something that might actually make a difference if you want more laws but first it would help if you learn the basics.

Again, what do you mean and do you actually have a clue what you are talking about?What does "The biggest part of the problem is the size of the cartridges" even mean>In a post above I pointed out that a large percentage of AR15s are chambered in .223 Remington. It's a small cartridge and great for hunting and also a fair choice for target shooting. But again, lots of different rifles are chambered in .223 Remington. Many are really old fashioned looking like Ruger's Ranch Rifle.If new laws are going to accomplish anything then they actually need to use terms that have some definable meaning.And don't make stupid comments like your last line when it is simply an utter misrepresentation of anything I have said.