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Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
marc9000 writes: Is there any point to replying to this, or are you gone for six months?
I'm gone forever in the "who is the bigger offender" thread,... You're leaving a lot of loose ends there in terms of things you said that weren't true.
Anyway, your questions go off in directions that no one's proposing. You and your fellow Republicans hear that Democrats want to reduce reliance of fossil fuels, and you immediately jump to the conclusion that they want to directly regulate it's use, like your proposal to create essential and nonessential categories. Where I *can* see regulation playing a role is things like high-sulfur/low-heat content coal such as lignite, and so forth. Essential versus non-essential seems perfectly logical to me,... It may seem perfectly logical to you, but it's your view, not the Democrats. Quit claiming that Democrats want to implement your ideas.
...and it's also perfectly logical why that discussion will never see the light of day. Because it wouldn't work politically, and it's not corruptable. Climate change is about finger pointing, few people are going to hold still for government curtailing of their recreational activities. And so it goes. Before responding adequately to your previous untruth that Democrats would try to regulate fuels by dividing them into essential and non-essential categories, you march onwards to make yet another untrue claim. There are no Democrat proposals for curtailing recreational vehicle use. You might try looking stuff up instead of going with your gut, else you'll just continue making more false claims, like that no one's trying to create new car companies in the US.
Do you think the auto makers might be engaging in some talks right now with the EPA and politicians, looking for ideas on how to increase their sales and keep them afloat? Maybe increasing regulations on the free use of older cars and trucks? Some new auto emissions testing maybe? With some suggestions on percentages of how many will flunk? Your suspicion meter is pegged. I have no special knowledge about lobbying by automakers, but neither do you. Your speculations are unlikely to be true.
This is what me and my fellow Republicans are concerned about. Like most of the things you and your fellow Republicans are concerned about, they're made up.
A country that's 28 trillion in debt can't logically afford to throw away useful products,... US GDP is about $21 trillion, so our debt is only about a third greater than our income. Many people have mortgages and total debt that are far greater than that, like 2, 3 or even 4 times income. Why do you think the US debt is at a difficult point?
I remember the circus of emissions testing in my area 17 years ago, it wasn't fun. You remember lots of things that never happened. What are you imagining happened with emissions testing 17 years ago?
But why love oil, Marc? What is it about oil that turned you into its big defender? Why do you seem to care so passionately where your power comes from, preferring that it come from the worst possible source for the environment. If tomorrow all your power suddenly started coming from wind and solar instead of gas and oil (which is possible, since power is fungible), why would you care? I care about costs and efficiency. Here's some Tesla info. The Tesla Model 3 base model is $37,000, and the Model 3 Extended Range Dual Motor is $50,000. It can go around 300 miles on a single change, and it takes around a half hour to charge at a Tesla Supercharging station. The Tesla home charger takes about five hours for a full charge. It costs about half as much per mile to drive as a gas-powered car. It requires very little maintenance, allowing Tesla to use a different model where most of their income comes from vehicle sales, while only part of the income from gas-powered vehicles comes from sales, the rest coming from service. A Tesla has no radiator, no radiator fluid, no thermostat, no water pump, no spark plugs, no ignition system, no fuel injectors, no fuel pump, no fuel filter, no crankcase oil, no oil filter, no oil pump, no transmission, no exhaust pipe, no muffler, no crankshaft, no pistons, no valves, no pushrods. The drivetrain has 17 moving parts, 34 for the dual motor, and there's a battery along the bottom of the car that runs from front to rear. Tesla has no recommended maintenance period but suggests coming in for a checkover once every couple years. It has excellent power (0-60 in 4.2 seconds for the Extended Range) and handling (the position of the batteries gives it a very low center of gravity).
But I'm not concerned about electric power, that will evolve however it will, the public won't be involved or informed, and I actually think it will work out for the best. There are federal subsidies for electric cars, but only so much for each manufacturer. The Tesla subsidy used to be $7500 but the funds ran out and it is now $0.
I worry about government involvement in private property. You mean like the way the federal government become involved in automotive safety and cut the automobile fatality rate to a miniscule level? Deaths per billion vehicle miles traveled used to be 250 a century ago and now its about 10. Thank God there's no amendment sayng, "Transportation being essential to the economy of a free State, the right of the people to own and drive transport shall not be infringed."
Older vehicles are seldom used near as much as newer ones, obviously restricting them will have little or no impact on the climate. Marc, you are making things up again. No one has proposed restricting older vehicles. Older vehicles are always grandfathered in by whatever the standards were at the time. To get older vehicles off the road the government has in the past provided incentives for people to purchase new cars.
But it's a feel good measure, one that will satisfy a big enough segment of the population so that no political damage is done. But the kind of damage that government meddling can do often can't be undone. What's a feel good measure? Restricting older vehicles? That's just something you made up. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
NosyNed writes: ...Fisker (probably not)... They ceased operations in 2014. --Percy
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
They are back (for now). At least that is what recall.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
That's not true!! I've had my Y for almost a year and had to put air in the tires twice until they seated in. It cost me $3!!!! (of course, that's Canadian dollars so not so much)
Of course, regular yearly service on the Audi was 500 to 1,000 and the gas (being premium and being in the most expensive area for gas in North America) was 20 to 25 cents / km. My electricity cost is about 2 cents per km .
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Quit claiming that Democrats want to implement your ideas. You're pretty clever at getting rid of people without banning them. Didn't work with Faith, but it works for me.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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Didn't work with Faith, but it works for me.
It doesn't seem that way. You are still here Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
If you have evidence that anything you said was true, this is the time and place to present them.
--Percy
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Due out this week the IPCC will issue its second world report.
This article Here's What You Need to Know About The UN's Upcoming 'State of The Climate' Report : ScienceAlert is about how the report was put together and the rigourous open scientific review system used. There are technical science sections separate from the political policy sections. This report will be the world's consensus view of our climate issues both science and policy wise.
quote: Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation. |
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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IPCC, 2021: Summary for Policymakers. In: Climate Change 2021: The Physical Science Basis.
Contribution of Working Group I to the Sixth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change quote: No more BS from Big Carbon and their political minions. The warming is real (no reasonable doubts remain). The warming is happening faster than projected. The warming is known anthropomorphic (no reasonable doubts remain). It is bad. Shifts in weather are now, and will continue to disrupt agriculture and social systems placing societies under extreme stress. We can still mollify some projected disruptions or their severity to a significant degree if we drastically reduce greenhouse emissions before 2050. It’s getting worse but we still have a chance to affect the most drastic IF we change our poisonous ways today. In summary, since we have already shown ourselves to be a population of stupid apes this report means we’re more screwed than we thought we were.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
We can still mollify some projected disruptions or their severity to a significant degree if we drastically reduce greenhouse emissions before 2050. 29 years, that's plenty of time.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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The committee put up a FAQ section in their report.
IPCC Frequently Asked Questions A sampling of the types of questions. Each one is answered in a layman's vernacular with lots of backup data when needed.
FAQ 1.1: Do we understand climate change better now compared to when the IPCC started? FAQ 4.1: How Will the Climate Change over the Next Twenty Years? FAQ 7.2: Clouds – What is the role in a warming climate? FAQ 10.2: Why are cities hotspots of global warming? FAQ 12.1: What is a climatic impact-driver (CID)? 90+ pages of such questions with detailed comprehensive answers. Very interesting questions and data. A major layman's answer resource.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation. |
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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29 years, that's plenty of time. For this species? In this world with lots of oil, money, politics and guns? I'm not going to be around to collect but I'll bet ya $10 we don't make it.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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I'm not going to be around to collect but I'll bet ya $10 we don't make it. You win! If the pandemic has shown us anything, it's that we will not do anything to save ourselves, especially if it means saving our "enemies" also. Damn it, I could use $10, too!What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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No more BS from Big Carbon and their political minions.
You are an optimist.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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anglagard Member (Idle past 865 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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You know what is going to happen after the IPCC report - NOTHING.
The Climate Crisis will be cured by one thing - the deaths of billions. After the amount of humans is reduced below a threshold, they will not be able to pollute as much, thereby saving the planet and hopefully some remnant of the natural world.The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do. Republican = death
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