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Phat
Member
Posts: 15652
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 16 of 178 (886627)
05-28-2021 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by ringo
05-25-2021 2:30 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Money is real in the sense that without it you would have no house. The community would help you, but your life would get harder. The love of money is the root of all evil. Money itself is just a tool. We need this tool in order to have shelter.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 05-25-2021 2:30 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 05-28-2021 11:04 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15652
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 17 of 178 (886628)
05-28-2021 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
05-23-2021 1:44 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
The Age of Empires is over
The last great empire that will fall will be the global financial system itself.


quote:
End of the Road: How Money Became Worthless | Gold | Financial Crisis | ENDEVR Documentary from 2012

In 2008 the world experienced one of the greatest financial turmoils in modern history. Markets around the world started crashing, stock prices plummeted, and major financial institutions, once thought to be invincible, started showing signs of collapse. Governments responded quickly, issuing massive bailouts and stimulus packages in an effort to keep the world economy afloat.
Although we’ve been told that these drastic measures prevented a total collapse of our system, a growing sense of unease fills the population. In the world of finance, indeed in all facets of modern life, cracks have started to appear. What lies ahead as a result of these bold money printing measures? Was the financial crisis solved, or were the problems merely kicked down the road?



Critics feel free to disagree and expose any falsehoods within this video.
At best, you will claim it to be paranoia and fear-driven, but you cannot deny the basic premises laid out in the narrative. We are heading for trouble, folks.

Edited by Phat, : added quote


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 05-23-2021 1:44 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 05-28-2021 11:11 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 18 of 178 (886629)
05-28-2021 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
05-28-2021 10:19 AM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:

Money is real in the sense that without it you would have no house.


There would still be shelters. Instead of dwelling on how important money is, you could be thinking about how to improve conditions for those who don't have any.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:19 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 19 of 178 (886631)
05-28-2021 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
05-28-2021 10:25 AM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:

The last great empire that will fall will be the global financial system itself.


That's not an empire. It's a toolbox.

The global financial system has nothing to do with "one world government".

Phat writes:

Critics feel free to disagree and expose any falsehoods within this video.


Not unless you tell us what's in the video.

Phat writes:

... you cannot deny the basic premises laid out in the narrative.


Tell us what they are and we'll see if I can deny them.

(By the way, I went through the "crisis" of 2008 without ever noticing it.)


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:25 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 3:37 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15652
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 20 of 178 (886635)
05-28-2021 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ringo
05-28-2021 11:11 AM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
The basic premise of the film is that the global financial system is almost like a giant Ponzi Scheme. At Bretton Woods in 1944, the US Dollar, backed by gold became the premier global reserve currency. This went well until 1970 when Nixon took the US off f the gold standard. Too many countries were taking gold out of the coffers at Fort Knox. The irony of this now is that the central banks are selling and lending gold in order to support the dollar, but the dollar has now been inflated through government debt spending and stimulus and is essentially vulnerable if it loses the faith of the world. The argument is that in the end, global finances need to be backed by something. It sure as hell ain't gonna be bitcoin. A mess has been created. As jar always likes to say, the bill will get paid. I have no idea why he likes to say that. His pension funds and investments will take the hit as much as anything else. You seem to think that money is unimportant and the people(community) are everything. Perhaps the people themselves will somehow become the backing of a new digital dollar. It all causes me anxiety. I fear that some of us will get screwed in order to support the poor disenfranchised masses. Im not aginst global altruism, but we need to think this whole thing through.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 05-28-2021 11:11 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 05-28-2021 6:34 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 21 of 178 (886639)
05-28-2021 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
05-28-2021 3:37 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:

... the dollar has now been inflated through government debt spending and stimulus and is essentially vulnerable if it loses the faith of the world.


As I have been saying, "the world" is becoming more and more fragmented. "The world" does not march in lockstep as a single entity. If some parts of "the world" lose faith in the dollar, they will switch to something else.

Phat writes:

The argument is that in the end, global finances need to be backed by something.


"Global finances" don't need to exist at all. Local finances, backed by local communities, don't need to be part of a financial monolith.

Phat writes:

I fear that some of us will get screwed in order to support the poor disenfranchised masses.


And that's a bad thing, why? The disenfranchised masses have been screwed for centuries and that doesn't seem to bother you.

Phat writes:

Im not aginst global altruism, but we need to think this whole thing through.


What you're saying is that "we" need to come up with a solution that benefits you.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 3:37 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 05-29-2021 2:11 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15652
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 22 of 178 (886655)
05-29-2021 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
05-28-2021 6:34 PM


The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
ringo writes:

"The world" does not march in lockstep as a single entity. If some parts of "the world" lose faith in the dollar, they will switch to something else.

Are you really so narrowly focused? You do realize that if the fragmentation included your local community being fragmented from the world-at-large, your local Walmart or grocery store would become virtually empty. Your community would be forcd to regress its standards and expectations and become virtually like Quakers or Pioneers or people like that religious group nearby you tat shares everything. Not many of us really want to rough it like that.

"Global finances" don't need to exist at all. Local finances, backed by local communities, don't need to be part of a financial monolith.
Thus, you are cutting yorself off from the S&P 500. Caring little whether they survive or close their doors. Not to mention the top 500 overseas corporations. You seem to mind little, leftist anarchist that you are. You will simply crow that it is likely what Jesus would approve of. Do you think He really wants the global "system" to fall flat? Do you really have any idea what would likely happen? Most people dont want to have to rough it with you and the Quakers singing in the woods next to their tents.There will be wars. Rumors of wars. Nation against nation. It wont go smoothly.

ringo writes:

What you're saying is that "we" need to come up with a solution that benefits you.

. What I'm saying is that I and my neighbors...and the entire middle/working class in general (those not yet living under a bridge, including ringo) need to make sure that we can do our best to prevent such a scenario from occurring. I am dependent upon the system to keep me alive. Pay my insurance. Allow me to get care at the local clinics. You can call me selfish for thinking of myself. I'm thinking that a financial collapse will help nobody except perhaps the homeless will get more company under the bridge. And they are tougher than we are. They would likely eat first. You have no problem losing your house, I assume. You seem to think that global altruism will be the norm rather than global anarchy, which I see as the norm.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 05-28-2021 6:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 05-29-2021 9:34 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15652
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 23 of 178 (886657)
05-29-2021 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
05-22-2021 2:54 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
You might be interested in this perspective.

Peter Schiff goes on the street at a protest and, representing the 1%
having a conversation with the 99%.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by nwr, posted 05-22-2021 2:54 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15652
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 24 of 178 (886658)
05-29-2021 3:53 PM


More Peter Schiff Debates


I will copy relevant portions of these transcripts later after I get off work. Schiff has some good arguments not easily refuted. The Bitcoin bunch has their arguments also...but I hope for the sake of God's grace that they are wrong or the whole system will go away, including gold. The biblical scenario of everyone being marked (or digitized) may well become a reality. I can hear jar laughing now...

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 05-29-2021 4:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17009
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 25 of 178 (886659)
05-29-2021 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
05-29-2021 3:53 PM


Re: More Peter Schiff Debates
Bitcoin is not going to replace money. The transaction volumes required to do that are way, way above anything Bitcoin can manage. And that’s on top of it’s volatility (expect the “value” to take a dive if China bans Bitcoin “mining” as they’ve suggested they might).

And since you’re hot on a currency being backed by something, tell me - what backs Bitcoin?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 05-29-2021 3:53 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by NosyNed, posted 05-29-2021 4:31 PM PaulK has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8965
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 26 of 178 (886660)
05-29-2021 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by PaulK
05-29-2021 4:05 PM


Bitcoin
Yea, just what is bitcoin good for? Just speculating? Hiding ill gotten gains?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 05-29-2021 4:05 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by PaulK, posted 05-29-2021 4:39 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17009
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 27 of 178 (886661)
05-29-2021 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by NosyNed
05-29-2021 4:31 PM


Re: Bitcoin
I don’t think it’s actually good for anything worthwhile. It is used for things like ransomware payments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by NosyNed, posted 05-29-2021 4:31 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8209
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 28 of 178 (886663)
05-29-2021 4:59 PM


It would have collapsed ages ago if it wasn't so useful to dictators and criminals.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 29 of 178 (886666)
05-29-2021 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
05-29-2021 2:11 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:

Are you really so narrowly focused?


Huh?

Phat writes:

You do realize that if the fragmentation included your local community being fragmented from the world-at-large, your local Walmart or grocery store would become virtually empty.


Why?

Do you think farmers would stop growing food?

Phat writes:

Your community would be forcd to regress its standards and expectations and become virtually like Quakers or Pioneers or people like that religious group nearby you tat shares everything. Not many of us really want to rough it like that.


Make up your mind. Are you saying it couldn't be done or are you saying you don't like it?

Phat writes:

Most people dont want to have to rough it with you and the Quakers singing in the woods next to their tents.


Again, are you just saying you don't like it?

Phat writes:

There will be wars. Rumors of wars. Nation against nation.


There have always been wars and rumors of wars

Phat writes:

What I'm saying is that I and my neighbors...and the entire middle/working class in general (those not yet living under a bridge, including ringo) need to make sure that we can do our best to prevent such a scenario from occurring.


Don't be silly. You'll never get all of those people to agree on a solution.

Phat writes:

I am dependent upon the system to keep me alive.


You're dependent on the community. "The system" is not your friend.

Phat writes:

You seem to think that global altruism will be the norm rather than global anarchy, which I see as the norm.


Your cult is lying to you.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 05-29-2021 2:11 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 2:48 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15652
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 30 of 178 (886668)
05-30-2021 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
05-29-2021 9:34 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Are you saying it couldn't be done or are you saying you don't like it?
I wouldn't like it. At all. Though many people would be helped, many others would suffer. It belies the definition of a revolution. The wheel simply revolves and the first will be last. And the last first. Some blessing!
ringo writes:

You're dependent on the community.

Agreed. The Federal Reserve is the villain. They allowed the financial behemouths to survive 2007-2008. They kicked the proverbial can down the road. The "system" allowed the national debt to increase to nearly 30 trillion dollars. Inflation on a major scale is nearly inevitable. We will pay the bill through inflation. The people will get wiped out financially. We are off the charts in regards to creating more money out of nothing.

AddByEdit: I was reading anglgards moments to Marc90,000 (Inflation, you know and noted his involvement in DSA. Curious, I looked it up. My question to the Democratic Socialists is how they would make money work and handle it in a community setting. I did read this.

Seems that the whole theory of money, debt, and how increasing debt is not only inevitable since we not only cant pay it off but if we tried, the money would disappear as debt was resolved. Seems the current administration is in favor of more stimulus and more debt being introduced into the economy. This will only destroy the value of the assets we now have...effectively debasing their value. How does a Democratic Socialist see this? Is it ok to get poorer?

Edited by Phat, : added discourse.

Edited by Phat, : added jabber


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 05-29-2021 9:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 9:24 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 05-30-2021 10:54 AM Phat has responded
 Message 33 by nwr, posted 05-30-2021 11:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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