Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Anti-theist
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 368 of 895 (886548)
05-23-2021 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by AZPaul3
05-23-2021 1:49 PM


Re: Some Idiot & Some Deity.
my mistake.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by AZPaul3, posted 05-23-2021 1:49 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 370 of 895 (886552)
05-23-2021 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by anglagard
05-23-2021 2:56 PM


Point Taken
Touche! But I never really ignore Him. I hear Him in my conscience. I just get mad when people who dont even believe He is alive insist that I listen to a character in a book. It seems like a fellow student trying to teach the class.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by anglagard, posted 05-23-2021 2:56 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by dwise1, posted 05-23-2021 6:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 404 by anglagard, posted 05-26-2021 9:58 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 378 of 895 (886588)
05-26-2021 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by ringo
05-23-2021 9:35 PM


Re: Some Idiot & Some Deity.
ringo writes:
Your claim was that the creator is more important than the creation, which is as silly as your claim that the messenger is more important than the message. You know those things are not true, so why do you keep repeating them?
When did I ever say I knew these concepts were not true?(or at least possibly true) It is *you* who like to guide and frame the arguments according to your logic and inform me what I must then believe.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by ringo, posted 05-23-2021 9:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 10:57 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 379 of 895 (886589)
05-26-2021 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by AZPaul3
05-23-2021 4:00 AM


Re: Elvis has left the building.
So whats with this TRVTH nonsense? Have you pagans invented a new magik word?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by AZPaul3, posted 05-23-2021 4:00 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 381 of 895 (886591)
05-26-2021 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by ringo
05-23-2021 2:07 PM


The Kingdom Of God Is Within You
How many times a day do you bow down to Henry Ford or Thomas Edison?
You seem to have problems categorizing things in order of importance. Yesterday I was bored and found myself staring at the quotes that I had assembled in my signature. I focused on Leo Tolstoy and resolved to look up the book from which it was taken. (You remember Tolstoy...a respected author and intellectual near the turn of last century. He wrote War & Peace.
So I found the book in its entirety translated into English online.
The Kingdom Of God Is Within You
Aside from my quote which I found in context, Tolstoy had some insightful observations about Christianity and organized religion.
quote:
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.
The Christian doctrine is presented to the men of our world to-day as a doctrine which everyone has known so[50] long and accepted so unhesitatingly in all its minutest details that it cannot be understood in any other way than it is understood now.
Christianity is understood now by all who profess the doctrines of the Church as a supernatural miraculous revelation of everything which is repeated in the Creed. By unbelievers it is regarded as an illustration of man's craving for a belief in the supernatural, which mankind has now outgrown, as an historical phenomenon which has received full expression in Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy, and Protestantism, and has no longer any living significance for us. The significance of the Gospel is hidden from believers by the Church, from unbelievers by Science.

He sounds a bit like you. Perhaps he would have approved of the message superseding the messenger, though in reading more, I highly doubt it.
quote:
n the midst of the elaborate religious observances of Judaism, in which, in the words of Isaiah, law was laid upon law, and in the midst of the Roman legal system worked out to the highest point of perfection, a new doctrine appeared, which denied not only every deity, and all fear and worship of them, but even all human institutions and all necessity for them. In place of all the rules of the old religions, this doctrine sets up only a type of inward perfection, truth, and love in the person of Christ, and—as a result of this inward perfection being attained by men—also the outward perfection foretold by the Prophets—the kingdom of God, when all men will cease to learn to make war, when all shall be taught of God and united in love, and the lion will lie down with the lamb. Instead of the[51] threats of punishment which all the old laws of religions and governments alike laid down for non-fulfillment of their rules, instead of promises of rewards for fulfillment of them, this doctrine called men to it only because it was the truth. John vii. 17: "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God." John viii. 46: "If I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? But ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth. Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Keep my sayings, and ye shall know of my sayings whether they be true." No proofs of this doctrine were offered except its truth, the correspondence of the doctrine with the truth. The whole teaching consisted in the recognition of truth and following it, in a greater and greater attainment of truth, and a closer and closer following of it in the acts of life. There are no acts in this doctrine which could justify a man and make him saved. There is only the image of truth to guide him, for inward perfection in the person of Christ, and for outward perfection in the establishment of the kingdom of God. The fulfillment of this teaching consists only in walking in the chosen way, in getting nearer to inward perfection in the imitation of Christ, and outward perfection in the establishment of the kingdom of God. The greater or less blessedness of a man depends, according to this doctrine, not on the degree of perfection to which he has attained, but on the greater or less swiftness with which he is pursuing it.
I like old Tolstoy! Intellectuals back in those days still respected the character of Christ and it(He) was reflected within their thoughts on the matter.
Edited by Phat, : message v messenger

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 05-23-2021 2:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 11:16 AM Phat has replied
 Message 388 by anglagard, posted 05-26-2021 1:28 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 383 of 895 (886593)
05-26-2021 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by ringo
05-26-2021 10:57 AM


Re: Some Idiot & Some Deity.
You don't throw away your bills and worship the envelopes.
Again, one must view these things in context.
There is one God. Not many. Loki and the spaghetti monster dont even count. Edison was a human inventor...not a Creator of all seen and unseen. Envelopes and letters are not even in the same league and context as are Creator and creation. You insist on relative equivalence. I am simply reminding you that you are wrong.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 10:57 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 11:29 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 384 of 895 (886594)
05-26-2021 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by ringo
05-26-2021 11:16 AM


Re: The Kingdom Of God Is Within You
How can you respect somebody when you deny His teachings?
I talk with the teacher. He knows that I have problems with His teachings. He continually reminds me why I am wrong and He does so in a loving way. He likely would forgive you for unbelief and would expand upon what was written in the Book. But go on and follow human logic, reason, and perception. You too will learn the errors of your ways if it is meant to be so.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 11:16 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 11:36 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 387 of 895 (886597)
05-26-2021 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by ringo
05-26-2021 11:36 AM


Re: The Kingdom Of God Is Within You
ringo writes:
And you put yourself above Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Nonsense. I respect other men who have done, endured, and learned far more than I have. All I'm saying is that I believe that Jesus is more than the character in the book. You may be technically right in that I don't simply jump up and do everything He said to do to those whom He was talking to in the book. And if you then suggest that what was said in the book applies to all of us today, I would agree. I am not so quick to judge people who ignore what He said, for we all fall short. As to whether I talk to Him or to a fantasy Jesus I made up in my head, I will only say that I believe that I know Him and that though I take your admonitions under advisement, I see no evidence that you know Him any better than I do and thus we are both at the same human level.
When others attempt to tell me that He doesn't exist or that He is a made up character, I respectfully remain silent. There are no winners here.
ringo writes:
But will He forgive YOU?
If you care, you might try saying a prayer for me. Reminding me what the book says is not going to help me suddenly decide to believe without questioning. Im only human.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 11:36 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by ringo, posted 05-26-2021 2:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 390 of 895 (886600)
05-26-2021 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by anglagard
05-26-2021 1:28 PM


Re: The Knowledge of Jesus is Available to All
anglagard writes:
So, Phat, what have you read among these works I mentioned? Still believe Jesus to be "just a character in a book?"
I never have believed Jesus to be just a character in a book. I surmised that many people do. And yes, I can always read more...as long as the good Lord lets me keep my eyes.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by anglagard, posted 05-26-2021 1:28 PM anglagard has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 406 of 895 (886616)
05-27-2021 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 404 by anglagard
05-26-2021 9:58 PM


Re: Point Taken
I just watched that video on Christianity and the summation of its history.
Based on what I've read and on my own common sense (intuition?) I agree largely with the conclusion of the author/creator. The Schism was well represented as was the politicization of the church. I am not simply an ignorant fundamentalist. (Though I can be a charismaniac at times )
I feel that the facts of history tend to support the concept of human sin, greed, and lust for power and control. The video pointed out the ongoing disagreements between different sects of Christianity.
The author says that if we assume we can learn from each other, it is more helpful than being autocratic and rigid. In our ongoing disagreement between conservatism and liberalism, I may someday find that the liberals, though seemingly indifferent to organized religion and spiritual absolutes will later prove to be the vessel through whom Christianity is preserved rather than slandered. Conversely, the conservatives who outwardly profess the authoritarian values of absolute truth will be found to be slandering it and making their own religion up. You never know.
(Im watching the Judaism video now)
transcript 07:11 writes:
For the most part, the Islamic empires were pretty good about tolerance,
so long as they were "people of the book," so to speak, and not pagans.
This worked out well, because Judaism, unlike Medieval Christianity,
had no problem being just one religion in the mix.
. This guy is pretty good with his humor combined loosely with historical facts. I'm enjoying these videos.
Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by anglagard, posted 05-26-2021 9:58 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by ringo, posted 05-27-2021 10:26 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 409 by dwise1, posted 05-27-2021 12:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 423 by anglagard, posted 05-29-2021 11:16 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 413 of 895 (886626)
05-28-2021 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 412 by Percy
05-28-2021 9:21 AM


Re: Elvis has left the building.
Percy, replying to Raphael writes:
So the Bible has all these "gaps in knowledge, inconsistencies, and blind spots" (not to mention outright errors), but you believe the stories. Why? Islam likewise has problems, but I assume you believe those real. Why?
What if there were no differences, no discrepancies, no internal or external errors? What if every copy of every Biblical book were identical, like the text of all copies of The Hobbit are identical? You'd still believe it all. Why?
Its all about perspective. It is how we are raised, what we take in from our environment, and what we feel comfortable with in a given worldview (or Belief). I could well ask you(Percy) what the world would be like if every human were identical in thought and belief. What if we all practiced altruism and empathy for others...focusing first on the least fortunate among us? Stile put it well in another post:
Stile writes:
If love had a being, I would follow it/him/her/they (because I follow love.)
If a Divine Being existed, and it embodies love, then I think we should all want more of this Diving Being in my life (because I want more love in all lives.)
But if I already follow love, and a being happens to exist that embodies that love... nothing about my life would change.
I would already be following that Divine Being, without even knowing it, just by following love.
Raphael likely experienced a lot of love and support from his upbringing yet was challenged through his friends and later church and academic community. His perspective is different than one who experienced hate, intolerance, or divisiveness caused at least in part through organized religion.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Percy, posted 05-28-2021 9:21 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Percy, posted 05-28-2021 11:05 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 415 of 895 (886634)
05-28-2021 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Percy
05-28-2021 11:05 AM


Re: Elvis has left the building.
I hope that I do. I realize that I cant defend the supernatural as a fact.
I believe very strongly that it is, though I acknowledge that it is technically a belief absent objective evidence.
I plan on starting a Great Debate with Raphael. Can you approve it? I started it in the Great Debate topic and I came up as AdminPhat...and since I can't promote my own topic...
There are rumors that Elvis is alive just as there are many Believers who claim that Jesus is alive. We don't hear as much from the mainstream regarding Elvis as we do concerning Jesus. Granted His resurrection was bodily and the Holy Spirit fills in for Him until He returns Bodily, according to the claims of many Christians.
I respect your defense of separating science from belief, however.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Percy, posted 05-28-2021 11:05 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by Percy, posted 05-29-2021 8:53 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 424 of 895 (886671)
05-30-2021 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by anglagard
05-29-2021 11:16 PM


DSA & Global Finance. A Real Concern
I studied Thomas Paine's theories. We had him as required reading in school, but I must have missed that day. I was fascinated yet annoyed concerning his theories on religion. It is where many of you got pieces parts of yours.
On a related note, I saw where you are a DSA member. I watched an excellent (in my opinion) video (30 minutes long) that fully explains the mysteries behind modern finance, government debt, and where we as a people have been, now are, and are going to end up financially. My question to you is this: Were the DSA in power, what would they do to skillfully wind down the problems caused by government and the wealthy and money in general? What would the average man on the street end up with? Better or worse than what we have now?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by anglagard, posted 05-29-2021 11:16 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by ringo, posted 05-30-2021 10:36 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 457 by anglagard, posted 06-02-2021 3:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 431 of 895 (886689)
05-31-2021 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 430 by ringo
05-31-2021 12:18 PM


Context
I think in context they are referring to a Heavenly Temple rather than the earthly one mentioned thousands of years ago in the book.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by ringo, posted 05-31-2021 12:18 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by ringo, posted 05-31-2021 12:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 434 of 895 (886694)
05-31-2021 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by Tangle
05-31-2021 2:29 PM


Re: Context
In response to the both of you, and without doing any deep and detailed study...I have arrived at an apologetic answer. I hope it satisfies the question.(I never looked this answer up and I don't know if its a common apologetic answer or not, but its what came to me) I thought back to scriptural context. Of how we would ourselves become "Living Stones". (1 Peter 2:4-6.)
Perhaps a Heavenly Temple would be made up of Living Stones, with Jesus being the "chief cornerstone." I'm just winging it on this one, but the symbolism is apt. The Living Stones themselves need to be cleaned up before any earthly temple needs scrubbing. Its just a building after all. And I've not studied anything from Ellen White, but may look into it all at a later time. One more thing. The Living Stones may have a job to do themselves on earth before finally being in Heaven.
Of course, some of you imagine either all of us or none of us being Living Stones, so we will have to put up with more relativistic arguments concerning humans and the gods they love!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Tangle, posted 05-31-2021 2:29 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by Tangle, posted 05-31-2021 4:28 PM Phat has replied
 Message 438 by ringo, posted 05-31-2021 6:31 PM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024