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Author Topic:   Bit Coin: 2 bit bubble
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 8 of 178 (886544)
05-23-2021 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
05-22-2021 1:41 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:
From the time I get up until the time im off work, I cannot avoid thinking about money.
To me, money has never seemed real.
In the olden days, I used to go to work every day; every two weeks they'd give me a piece of paper with numbers on it. I'd take it to the bank and they'd give me some other pieces of paper with numbers on them; I'd take them to the store and they'd give me food, clothing, etc. for them. Pieces of paper with numbers on them would come in the mail from the phone company and the electric company; I'd write the same numbers on other pieces of paper and send them back and I would magically get electricity and phone service.
Today, it's even less real. I get one piece of paper in the mail every month; It tells me that somebody has been putting numbers into the bank and somebody else has been taking them out. At the store I insert a plastic card and punch in some numbers and they give me food, clothing, etc.
The only time I think about "money" is when the number at the bottom of the bank statement gets smaller.
Phat writes:
The apologists may have well warped my mind with their tales of how a One World Government....
In reality, it's going in the opposite direction. The Soviet Union fragmented. Yugoslavia fragmented. Even little Czechoslovakia fragmented. The Age of Empires is over.
Edited by ringo, : Snelling.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 05-22-2021 1:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 2:24 AM ringo has replied
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:25 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 14 of 178 (886577)
05-25-2021 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
05-25-2021 2:24 AM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:
Maybe now you can understand my anxieties and why I dont immediately do what Jesus said and give it *all* up.
My anecdote was intended to convey the exact opposite - that because money isn't real, giving it all up isn't giving up anything real. The only thing that's real is the community.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 2:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:19 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 15 of 178 (886578)
05-25-2021 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
05-25-2021 1:45 PM


Re: For The Love Of Money
Phat writes:
I would also give away a lot of it (though not all...unless the Lord prompted me)
He did.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 05-25-2021 1:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 178 (886629)
05-28-2021 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
05-28-2021 10:19 AM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:
Money is real in the sense that without it you would have no house.
There would still be shelters. Instead of dwelling on how important money is, you could be thinking about how to improve conditions for those who don't have any.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:19 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 19 of 178 (886631)
05-28-2021 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
05-28-2021 10:25 AM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:
The last great empire that will fall will be the global financial system itself.
That's not an empire. It's a toolbox.
The global financial system has nothing to do with "one world government".
Phat writes:
Critics feel free to disagree and expose any falsehoods within this video.
Not unless you tell us what's in the video.
Phat writes:
... you cannot deny the basic premises laid out in the narrative.
Tell us what they are and we'll see if I can deny them.
(By the way, I went through the "crisis" of 2008 without ever noticing it.)

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 10:25 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 3:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 21 of 178 (886639)
05-28-2021 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
05-28-2021 3:37 PM


Re: Asset Bubbles, Inflation, and Cryptic Cryptos
Phat writes:
... the dollar has now been inflated through government debt spending and stimulus and is essentially vulnerable if it loses the faith of the world.
As I have been saying, "the world" is becoming more and more fragmented. "The world" does not march in lockstep as a single entity. If some parts of "the world" lose faith in the dollar, they will switch to something else.
Phat writes:
The argument is that in the end, global finances need to be backed by something.
"Global finances" don't need to exist at all. Local finances, backed by local communities, don't need to be part of a financial monolith.
Phat writes:
I fear that some of us will get screwed in order to support the poor disenfranchised masses.
And that's a bad thing, why? The disenfranchised masses have been screwed for centuries and that doesn't seem to bother you.
Phat writes:
Im not aginst global altruism, but we need to think this whole thing through.
What you're saying is that "we" need to come up with a solution that benefits you.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 05-28-2021 3:37 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 05-29-2021 2:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 29 of 178 (886666)
05-29-2021 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
05-29-2021 2:11 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
Are you really so narrowly focused?
Huh?
Phat writes:
You do realize that if the fragmentation included your local community being fragmented from the world-at-large, your local Walmart or grocery store would become virtually empty.
Why?
Do you think farmers would stop growing food?
Phat writes:
Your community would be forcd to regress its standards and expectations and become virtually like Quakers or Pioneers or people like that religious group nearby you tat shares everything. Not many of us really want to rough it like that.
Make up your mind. Are you saying it couldn't be done or are you saying you don't like it?
Phat writes:
Most people dont want to have to rough it with you and the Quakers singing in the woods next to their tents.
Again, are you just saying you don't like it?
Phat writes:
There will be wars. Rumors of wars. Nation against nation.
There have always been wars and rumors of wars
Phat writes:
What I'm saying is that I and my neighbors...and the entire middle/working class in general (those not yet living under a bridge, including ringo) need to make sure that we can do our best to prevent such a scenario from occurring.
Don't be silly. You'll never get all of those people to agree on a solution.
Phat writes:
I am dependent upon the system to keep me alive.
You're dependent on the community. "The system" is not your friend.
Phat writes:
You seem to think that global altruism will be the norm rather than global anarchy, which I see as the norm.
Your cult is lying to you.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 05-29-2021 2:11 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 2:48 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 32 of 178 (886673)
05-30-2021 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
05-30-2021 2:48 AM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Are you saying it couldn't be done or are you saying you don't like it?
I wouldn't like it. At all.
Okay, so we're clear on that - it would be bad for Phat, which is all that matters.
Phat writes:
Though many people would be helped, many others would suffer.
And we've had that since always. So?
Phat writes:
It belies the definition of a revolution.
*shrug*
Ever hear of the American Revolution? Whether a revolution is good or bad is in the eye of the beholder.
Phat writes:
The wheel simply revolves and the first will be last. And the last first.
Remember who said that? (Matthew 20:16)
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You're dependent on the community.
Agreed. The Federal Reserve is the villain.
I said no such thing. The Federal Reserve is not your community. Your community existed long before the Federal reserve was ever thought of, long before there was a federation to reserve anything.
Phat writes:
How does a Democratic Socialist see this?
Ask one.
Phat writes:
Is it ok to get poorer?
Yes.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 2:48 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 11:51 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 35 of 178 (886677)
05-30-2021 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
05-30-2021 11:51 AM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
You really need to read that transcript from the excellent video on how money works.
No. You need to explain it. Then maybe you would understand it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 11:51 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 2:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 37 of 178 (886680)
05-30-2021 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
05-30-2021 2:26 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
You claim we can fragment into local economies, but this is neither practical or efficient.
What you quoted from the transcript seems to agree more with me than with you:
quote:
Though the economy might seem complex, it works in a simple, mechanical way.
It's made up of a few simple parts and a lot of simple transactions
that are repeated over and over again a zillion times.
So explain yourself.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 2:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 2:59 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 39 of 178 (886683)
05-30-2021 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
05-30-2021 2:59 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
First off, there is nothing wrong with my agreeing with you if, in fact, you are saying something reasonable.
But you're not agreeing with me. You posted a quote that agrees with me but it doesn't agree with you.
Phat writes:
And some people groups would be unfortunately stuck in non-resource rich communities. How will they survive apart from the rest of us?
Trade.
We've had financial collapses in the past and they didn't cause trade to come to a screeching halt.
Phat writes:
transcript writes:
Let's start with the simplest part of the economy: Transactions....
Again, your transcript does not support what you claim.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 05-30-2021 2:59 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 05-31-2021 5:06 PM ringo has replied
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 06-01-2021 1:14 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 41 of 178 (886701)
05-31-2021 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
05-31-2021 5:06 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
Do you agree with the premise so far?
I have already said that what you quoted agrees with me. Simple transactions. Nothing about the whole system collapsing.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 05-31-2021 5:06 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 178 (886722)
06-01-2021 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
06-01-2021 1:14 AM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
History writes:
The Great Depression of 1929 devastated the U.S. economy. A third of all banks failed.
Yes. ONE third failed. TWO thirds did not.
Unemployment rose to 25%, and homelessness increased.2 Housing prices plummeted 67%, international trade collapsed by 65%, and deflation soared above 10%. It took 25 years for the stock market to recover.
And it did recover.
So I repeat, we've had financial collapses in the past and they didn't cause trade to come to a screeching halt.
Phat writes:
65% may not qualify as a screeching halt, but it supports my point.
No it doesn't. It supports my point that it isn't an uncommon thing.
Phat writes:
Some areas get hit really hard.
Some areas get hit hard even in boom times - there are still bankruptcies, foreclosures, unemployment, homelessness, etc.
Phat writes:
You claim that revolutions are in the eyes of the beholder...
I said, "Whether a revolution is good or bad is in the eye of the beholder." Message 32
Phat writes:
... but who be the holder?
When the beholder is an American, he thinks the American Revolution was good. When the beholder is somebody else, he thinks it was treason.
Phat writes:
Certainly not myself and my neighbors! I don't know what your town thinks, but I doubt that a great depression would thrill them.

You're so far off base you can't even see the stadium.
I didn't say one single, solitary word about anybody "liking" a depression. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with whether it happens.
Phat writes:
Unless you are a liberal socialist bordering on favoring anarchy and reparations...
I am. (Not "bordering" - right spang in the middle.)
Phat writes:
...(or rioting and looting...take your pick )...
It isn't a matter of Phat's way or utter chaos. Reality is somewhere in the middle.
Phat writes:
... you would agree with me.
Of course I don't agree with you. You haven't said a word that makes any sense.
Phat writes:
This crisis must be prevented.
The "crisis" that you're raving about is nothing but your fantasy.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 06-01-2021 1:14 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 06-05-2021 1:07 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 45 of 178 (886759)
06-05-2021 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
06-05-2021 1:07 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
Phat writes:
If you worked at a job...a factory, for instance...and 1/3 of the workers were laid off, I guarantee that the othjer 2/3 would feel it also. They likely would be forced to work harder, for one thing.
We are not talking about whether or not anybody would notice. You claim that the economy will collapse. I say it won't.
Phat writes:
You socialists never care about the guy next door.
Don't be ridiculous. Socialism is ALL about the guy next door. Remember the Good Samaritan? Jesus explained that your neighbor, the guy next door, is also the guy in India and the LBGTQ guy.
Phat writes:
I'm not sure I agree that the middle two quadrants should be forced to pay more simply to help the bottom one.
They shouldn't "have to". They should be voluntarily helping the guy next door, as Jesus said.
Phat writes:
Why can't we all unite against the top quadrant...
There's your class struggle again, Mr. Marx.
Phat writes:
This is why populism is popular. The middle feels besieged and at risk of being fleeced by the globalist agenda.
Since when did Trump have a globalist adgenda?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 06-05-2021 1:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 06-05-2021 3:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 48 of 178 (886763)
06-05-2021 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
06-05-2021 1:07 PM


Re: The Big Picture Needs Reviewing
I can't reply to your Message 46 because your god damn NPR is fucking up my browser. Stop posting crap like that and use your own words.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 06-05-2021 1:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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