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Author
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Topic: Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 171 of 220 (886864)
06-13-2021 11:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 168 by anglagard
06-02-2021 12:14 AM
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Channeling Jesus? Or quoting an old book
anglagard writes: Summer solstice, June 21 or more accurately the day or two after. I will throw everything Jesus ever purportedly said that you hate above all things, right into both your faces. That is not just a promise, not just a guarantee, for you, it will be a reckoning. Many people have spoken into my life. Some were from the church and some weren't, but what mattered was the Spirit behind what they said to me. If you simply come at me as a liberal who thinks that an ancient character in an old book speaks the ringing truths of empathetic socialism, I will be unimpressed. If, however, you speak as if that man is living in your heart, you know I will pay attention whether I want to or not. I reckon I need a good reckoning now and then.
The Great Debate between Raphael and Phat appears to be between a 7th and a wannabe 7th. What makes you think I want to join the 7th-day Adventists? Were i speaking with a Catholic do you imagine me thus wanting to convert to that? Im simply attempting a conversation that will highlight our similarities in belief and our differences...with due respect to Raphael regardless what he believes. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 168 by anglagard, posted 06-02-2021 12:14 AM | | anglagard has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 173 of 220 (886867)
06-13-2021 11:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 172 by PaulK
06-13-2021 11:47 AM
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Re: Better Sources? We Have Rhema
You do have a good argument. I'll have to think about what you say.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 172 by PaulK, posted 06-13-2021 11:47 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 174 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2021 12:52 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 175 of 220 (886871)
06-13-2021 2:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 174 by Tangle
06-13-2021 12:52 PM
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Re: Better Sources? We Have Rhema
I've heard your appeals to logic and rejection of myth and fantasy many times. It's just that I don't agree with it. I've seen things that I doubt you have seen. Not that I can objectively prove them. And that's the key you use...thus you are limited to exclude inner feeling and confirmation.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 174 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2021 12:52 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 177 of 220 (886895)
06-15-2021 2:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 176 by ringo
06-13-2021 3:38 PM
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ringo needs John, Paul, and George.
And you know that's true. No, I don't *know* that at all. God has used you to stir up my inner conscience, however. I recently saw a good article supporting your views even as I was trying to google concepts supporting mine.
The message is more important than the messenger You don't throw your bills away and worship the envelopes. I don't worship the bills either. Your analogy is struggling.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by ringo, posted 06-13-2021 3:38 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 181 of 220 (886901)
06-17-2021 7:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 180 by ringo
06-16-2021 12:22 PM
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Re: ringo needs John, Paul, and George.
ringo writes: You're struggling to avoid it. You throw away Jesus' message and worship him as the Envelope that brought it. The only argument we have had is interpretation. Jesus told the rich young ruler that he (specifically) lacked one thing. Which was letting go of his provisions. Jesus never mandated that all Christians or all followers need give up everything. If so, Mary and Martha never would have even had a house., Every follower (or believer) would be in effect homeless and wandering after the One who had no place to lay His head. Now...to be fair, we all are called to give up everything in the sense that we are no longer in charge of our lives. Jesus may tell ringo to up the spare change and sell the house, but I doubt He would leave ringo homeless....that would serve no purpose. Ringo, however...being a good little liberal would likely feel more comfortable with the suffering masses than he would living alone up on the hill with Mr. Potter. As for me, I try and listen to what Jesus tells me specifically to do. I don't always succeed. This is why I went into a rant over the whole concept of reparations in the other topic.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by ringo, posted 06-16-2021 12:22 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 182 by Tangle, posted 06-17-2021 9:45 AM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 185 by ringo, posted 06-17-2021 12:37 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 183 of 220 (886905)
06-17-2021 11:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 182 by Tangle
06-17-2021 9:45 AM
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Re: ringo needs John, Paul, and George.
You did your homework quite well. Disciples were required to give up everything. All were encouraged to do so. But again I ask, why did Mary and Martha even have a house? Answer: They were not following Jesus as were the Disciples and as the Rich Young Ruler sought to do. And when I ask ringo why he has not given up all he has I am met with the derisive comment that he is not a believer. Hypocrite. Non-believers cannot hold believers to a standard. It is between us and Jesus. I will admit, however, that based on scripture I have a weak case.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 182 by Tangle, posted 06-17-2021 9:45 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 184 by Tangle, posted 06-17-2021 12:35 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 186 by ringo, posted 06-17-2021 12:43 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 187 of 220 (886911)
06-17-2021 2:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by ringo
06-17-2021 12:43 PM
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Re: ringo needs John, Paul, and George.
It's between you and your made-up "Jesus". Why should I listen to a character in a book?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by ringo, posted 06-17-2021 12:43 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 190 of 220 (886918)
06-18-2021 8:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 189 by dwise1
06-17-2021 11:05 PM
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Honestly
OK, Dwise1, I will level with you. First, I always have believed that God does exist, from the first time I came to EvC in 2003. I was challenged in my thought process and asked to question my conclusions---repeatedly over these years, and I refused to publically do so, though in my prayers and meditations, I did. There are several possibilities that are Inconvenient Truths were they to actually be evidenced, and I will admit that I could be wrong in my thinking, my beliefs, and my world views. Tangle will tell you that I am a doom and groomer, but I have confidence in my ability to discern truth in information. As far as God goes, we likely will never agree on that. Which is ok. A relief, actually. If we all honestly saw things the same way, we would either all be end times preppers or I would become less religious and more scientific. You are a rational thinker. I dont expect any of my chosen apologists to sway or impress you in the least. I can even admit that I use large doses of confirmation bias to avoid any inconvenient truths which may or may not pop up. But lets talk another form of apologetics. Rational economics. I want you to listen to Surging Inflation Is Anything but Transitory – Ep 700 and using everything your rational mind can tell you about truths, cons, and rational economic theory tell me that Schiff is simply a con and not a legitimate voice crying in the wilderness. Ringo seems to not mind if the US middle class gets thoroughly fleeced nor is jar. I see it differently. I see a strong likelihood of another Great Depression and it is this one event that will trigger class warfare and a global crisis of confidence in humanity. Even if Jesus and the whole mythos of Christianity turned out to be a human-created story, the reality of a global clash seems more imminent than not.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 189 by dwise1, posted 06-17-2021 11:05 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 193 by ringo, posted 06-18-2021 12:14 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 196 by Percy, posted 06-19-2021 2:18 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Re: ringo needs John, Paul, and George.
anglagard writes: Instead of cursing Christ, why do you prefer to wallow in a some fake form of Christianity that has no Christ? Good question. Am I fooling myself?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 188 by anglagard, posted 06-17-2021 8:32 PM | | anglagard has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 195 of 220 (886938)
06-19-2021 12:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 194 by dwise1
06-18-2021 1:45 PM
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Re: Honestly
dwise1's quote writes: But you should have seen what a horrible mess it was when only God was taking care of it." This is a good argument for believers avoiding parking their brains at the door. When we give our lives to Christ we don't instantly become brainless zombies. This is why I contradict my professed beliefs on a regular basis. I am an example of a human beset with double-mindedness.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 194 by dwise1, posted 06-18-2021 1:45 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 197 of 220 (886946)
06-19-2021 3:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 196 by Percy
06-19-2021 2:18 PM
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Re: Honestly
wow, so Irwin was his Father? They feature him on CNN...I figured he was legit. I appreciate your feedback even if it didn't confirm my imaginations. 
Wiki writes: Among the arguments raised over the years by Schiff: That the Internal Revenue Service, in enforcing the income tax, seeks to impose a tax not authorized by the taxing clauses of the United States Constitution; That no statutory deficiency in Federal income tax can exist until an assessment has been made; The filing of income tax is voluntary, and "voluntary compliance" is a misleading phrase used by the IRS to mislead the public; That no tax assessment can be made unless a tax return has been voluntarily filed; That the United States Tax Court has no jurisdiction over him; and That the United States Tax Court is not a legal court, but is instead a part of the IRS. That "income" as properly defined according to his reading of court decisions and statutes, is not wages, but only corporate profits. These arguments were ruled invalid in Schiff v. Commissioner.[10] Another argument made by Schiff on his web site is: "On the [Form] 1040 itself... you report 'zero' income regardless of how much you received in: wages, commissions, interest, alimony, capital gains or from operating a business. For tax purposes, 'income' only means corporate 'profit.' Therefore, no individual receives anything that is reportable as 'income'."[11] This argument has been rejected by the lower courts, as well as the United States courts of appeal. See Cameron v. Internal Revenue Serv.;[12] Stoewer v. Commissioner;[13] Reinhart v. United States;[14] Fink v. Commissioner;[15] Flathers v. Commissioner;[16] Schroeder v. Commissioner;[17] Sherwood v. Commissioner;[18] and Ho v. Commissioner.[19] According to his son, Peter Schiff, "my father was most known for his staunch opposition to the federal income tax, for which the US government labeled him a 'tax protester.' But he had no objection to lawful, reasonable taxation." Also...
Who Is Peter Schiff? Peter Schiff is either loved or laughed at. While his supporters view him as a savant and hero who predicted the stock market crash and housing crisis of 2008, his critics write him off as a “doomsdayer” conspiracy theorist who will have you stockpiling gold bouillon while you wait for the economy to collapse.(...)As a vocal libertarian, Schiff became Ron Paul's economic advisor in his bid for the presidency in 2008. I am no foe of Libertarians, and Schiff is hardly my only source fueling my confirmation bias. I have been a gold bug since I first "got saved" in 1993. Had I saved my silver when I had 4000 ounces at 4.00 an ounce back then, I would be sitting pretty now. This may sound crazy, though you all already think I am,  but right after I got saved I began to obsess about gold and silver and read a lot of literature back then. It had since proven to be right. You need to propose how the US is going to wriggle out of our inflationary and debt mess so as to prevent the fleecing of the middle class which will occur as jars infamous bill gets paid. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : added info
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 196 by Percy, posted 06-19-2021 2:18 PM | | Percy has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 199 of 220 (886953)
06-20-2021 11:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 198 by ringo
06-20-2021 8:59 AM
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Re: Honestly
Oh I know. It most definitely was an evil spirit. When one gets an encounter with the Holy Spirit it also means one will be tested by Satan. It's part of the deal. You can insist on evidence, but I have seen confirmation enough times that I don't need to prove anything to you.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 198 by ringo, posted 06-20-2021 8:59 AM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 201 by ringo, posted 06-20-2021 4:23 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 202 of 220 (886956)
06-20-2021 6:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 201 by ringo
06-20-2021 4:23 PM
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Re: Honestly
You definitely do not know that. This is what keeps the likes of any of you from believing anything. You have flawed thinking, though it likely isnt your fault...it is rational. You first conclude that all gods are in the same pile. Insisting upon objective proof, (which one will never find with God) you find none and move on. Some of you even claim to have known God at one point in your past but you dismiss Him as just another Santa Claus and refer to the pile of gods as collective human mythos. In such conditions, there never would be any God to cling to, since your internal standards regarding objective evidence shuts the possibility of belief out of any equation. And I have no credibility among any of you with which to convince you. You obviously have concluded that any so-called believer who refuses to give everything up is unworthy to be taken seriously. So what happened with your house, anyway? Do you need a place to live? Or are you counting on the spare change of the masses to pay you back for decades of carefree spare changing helping them? If so, I must respect you. Not only do I have trouble with some of the book words of Jesus, but I also have issues trusting the nameless masses' attention to taking care of me. My Dad always taught me to work and take care of myself. He never carried spare change, but he would willingly buy a guy a meal and also would offer them temporary jobs sweeping out the houses which he built. I was thus taught to be frugal yet not overly stingy. I think I picked up that selfishness on my own.
With no evidence, you have no basis for your conclusion. Yes i do. Its called belief. My problem was that I believed in gold and silver and not enough in Jesus. But then again, you dont think He ever existed apart from a book and yet chide me for refusing to listen to that book. You have standards for a believer that are higher than 90% of believers embrace. You...use satan as an excuse I use my own love of comfort and fear of pain and suffering as my excuse. I have indeed failed the test. Edited by Phat, : added excuses
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 201 by ringo, posted 06-20-2021 4:23 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Re: Irwin Schiff went back to prison?
LNA writes: I need to look this up. He died behind bars. I feel that he did not deserve it, honestly. I never knew much about Irwin, but as Peter himself would tell you, what possible good is it when taxes bring in perhaps 3 trillion max a year and stimulus packages use 6 trillion? Our debt is approaching 30 trillion. The government and the Federal Reserve obviously no longer believe that they will stop this charging reality...so they likely plan to inflate their way out of the long-term debt. This strategy will ruin the savings of the average US citizen.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 205 of 220 (886960)
06-21-2021 8:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 204 by ringo
06-20-2021 9:41 PM
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The Man In The Mirror
ringo writes: There are millions of people with different beliefs, many of them stronger than yours. YOU have rejected belief as a basis. Not true. I have rejected your silly idea of all gods being in the same pile, which is to me indicative of relativistic humanist thinking regarding the idea of a god to begin with. I, being human, have resisted(as opposed to renounced) the God whom I know exists through Jesus Christ because I am chicken. I am scared to go all in and give up all I have. I am very much aware of my predicament. I hope and pray that He gives me some more time. (He mentions that He would prefer humans being either cold or hot rather than lukewarm)
ringo writes: I chide you for calling yourself a Christian when you reject almost everything Christ ever said. You even have the gall to argue against what He said. And why should this bother you? To you, He is simply a character in a book and an Elmer Gantry compilation of historical characters. Where is the gall at rejecting that? You have standards for a believer that is higher than 90% of believers embrace.
ringo writes: Jesus said it was 100%. Well there you go, then. Even Jesus knew(knows) that none of us are righteous and that none of us will give it all up. So why get on my case? Address the man in the mirror.  But of course, you follow the message in principle because you have this delusion that people are basically good at heart and will willingly give from each according to their ability to each according to their need. You and jar have basically concluded from the written evidence that all humans are well aware of good and evil and thus have a charge(a responsibility) to do good...as we all go riding off into the secular humanist sunset together.  Oh if only it were true, we wouldnt need Jesus.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 204 by ringo, posted 06-20-2021 9:41 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 206 by ringo, posted 06-21-2021 12:35 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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