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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 155 of 773 (886944)
06-19-2021 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Phat
06-19-2021 12:58 PM


Re: Conservative Supreme Court Rules
Phat writes:
How can you call yourself a "moderate" when you always side with the right-wing nuts?
Not all of the right-wing is nuts. No more than all of the left-wing.
Good grief. We should start calling you Homer.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 06-19-2021 12:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 06-20-2021 3:53 AM Percy has replied
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 06-20-2021 3:53 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 160 of 773 (886970)
06-22-2021 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Phat
06-20-2021 3:53 AM


Re: Prager U also has some good presentations.
Phat writes:
Conclusion? There are more ways to discuss/debate an issue than the popular leftist narrative.
My own conclusion is that you're posting bare links. Unless informed and rational arguments are included the chances are too great that they're just a waste of time.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 06-20-2021 3:53 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 161 of 773 (886971)
06-22-2021 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
06-20-2021 3:53 AM


Re: Conservative Supreme Court Rules
Doh!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 06-20-2021 3:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Phat, posted 06-22-2021 5:10 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 230 of 773 (887166)
07-17-2021 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Phat
07-01-2021 10:49 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
I'm way behind, but I wanted to reply to this.
Phat writes:
1) I want to conserve low prices.
Have you thought about the implications, because traditionally the way governments reduce inflation is by raising interest rates to tamp down economic activity thereby reducing demand. This also tends to put downward pressure on wages and employment.
I want to conserve the US Lifestyle in the early 70's before inflation took off and made us just like any other country.
You are so gullible. In antebellum America you would have argued for slavery because you'd buy the argument that ending slavery would bankrupt the country. In 1920's America you would have argued for Jim Crowe laws because you'd buy the argument that letting the races mix would bring anarchy and ruin racial purity. Now you're buying the argument that America's post WWII prosperity was due to some kind of special quality rather than that we one of the few countries not devastated by the war and that we were large and possessed enormous natural resources. Your belief that Americans are a special people is a kind of racism, and your belief that America is a country of destiny is plain old jingoism.
All we have left is the dollar...and soon the global reserve status will be lost and all of us Americans will have to work twice as hard and pay twice as much. We don't want that.
What we could do with less of is the claptrap someone's filling your head with.
2) We thus need to conserve our powerful military. Granted its being a bit of a bully and expansionist empire that got us in trouble....and I'm all for being nice to every other race and people...but can it be done while still preserving our quality of life?
A powerful military is for preserving liberty. Using it to preserve quality of life means exploiting other countries.
If not, we have identified the inevitable problem that Americans must confront. Jon Jost identified this problem in Message 1. I don't think we (the people) will let go of our entitled lifestyles that easily. Which will only hurt us more later.
You are making two contradictory arguments. First you argue we need our military to maintain our quality of life, then you cite Jon Jost from your Message 1 of the Jon Jost's American Pastoral #29 thread where he says the exact opposite. You seem unable to comprehend what you read. Here's Jost's words that you quoted again:
quote:
Since the end of World War Two, Americans have lived in a fantasy bubble, perceiving themselves ever as the good guys, the white-hat cowboy come to save the damsel in distress. After all, we’d gone to Europe’s and Asia’s defense, beating the Krauts and the Japs, sacrificing our youth for others. Our story. Never mind it was the Soviet Union that sacrificed endlessly more and did the job in Europe, and never mind it was Japanese over-reach that cost them their war. But for we Americans, nope, it was our glorious GI’s that turned the tide, and won the day. (...)We were a Norman Rockwell painting!
ringo writes:
I have also said before, conservatives tend to think of the nation as a business - the less-productive members have to fall by the wayside; liberals tend to think of the nation as a family - you feed your children whether you can afford it or not.
Liberals go a step farther. They think of the world as a family. Which is easy if they are rich like the majority of EvC is. It's not easy for the blue-collar uneducated working class, however. They would turn to the military and the Politicians for help preserving their diminishing lifestyle. After all, they work hard enough. Why must they get paid less and become the butlers and servants of a rising global middle class that has advantages over them?
Who is filling your head with this garbage? It isn't money that fills people's hearts with compassion and empathy. It comes from within.
When I was a kid selling stuff door to door I quickly learned to avoid rich neighborhoods. Rich people would shut the door in your face, while the poor would invite you in, give you a drink, and as likely as not buy something.
Your view of the world is contradictory, warped, ignorant and cruel.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 07-01-2021 10:49 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 231 of 773 (887168)
07-19-2021 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Phat
07-01-2021 10:49 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes:
I want to conserve the US Lifestyle in the early 70's before inflation took off and made us just like any other country. All we have left is the dollar...and soon the global reserve status will be lost and all of us Americans will have to work twice as hard and pay twice as much. We don't want that.
This is so confused and contorted and such a dense assemblage of error that I abandoned trying to address it the first time I responded to your message, but this pile of illogic and ignorance stayed with me, so let me ask this: Without linking to any video or webpage, explain the following:
  1. Define the "US lifestyle in the early 70's" and enumerate which of its qualities you think we risk losing and that should be preserved.
  2. There have been periods of higher inflation all through our history. The inflation that began in the 60's and extended through the 70's (Remember Nixon's wage/price controls? It wasn't just the oil shocks of the late 70's causing inflation.) was back to normal by the mid-80's. Explain how we were different from other countries before that period of inflation, and how we were just like them afterwards.
  3. What forces and/or circumstances are placing the dollar's status as a global currency at risk?
  4. The US ranks 15th in quality of life (Standard of Living by Country | Quality of Life by Country 2022). None of the countries in front of us have a global currency, unless you count the Euro which doesn't belong to any single country. How do you explain that, for example, Finland, Estonia and Slovenia are in front of us?
Until you learn how to think through the data and to reason for yourself you'll continue reaching in the dark toward voices that resonate most strongly with you, no matter how nonsensical and fact-free they are.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 07-01-2021 10:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by PaulK, posted 07-19-2021 9:52 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 611 by Phat, posted 03-08-2022 2:32 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 257 of 773 (887470)
08-04-2021 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Phat
08-04-2021 1:50 PM


Re: Protecting your Ass(ets)
Phat writes:
For every ounce he sells, he makes at least $9.00...
How much would you actually pay Bernie for 100 ounces of silver today?
How much would you get if you sold Bernie 100 ounces of silver today?
If Bernie is making at least $9/ounce, then with silver at around $23/ounce that's at least $31/ounce, a 40% markup. Does that seem a bit much to you? You work in a supermarket where the markup is around 1% - do you think maybe you should reconsider your relationship with Bernie.
Some sayings to consider:
  • A fool and his money are soon parted.
  • A rube is born every minute.
  • A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them. They were obviously loving somebody I wasn't. When they found this out, they would blame me for disillusioning them and fooling them.
--something Bernie might say, but it was actually Marilyn Monroe
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Phat, posted 08-04-2021 1:50 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Phat, posted 08-05-2021 5:40 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 260 of 773 (887487)
08-06-2021 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Phat
08-05-2021 5:40 PM


Re: Protecting your Ass(ets)
Phat writes:
I will be honest. i recently bought a 100 oz silver bar from Bernie. Silver spot was 25.00 an ounce. i paid 2800.00 for the bar. Check back with me in a year and we can crunch the numbers.
I can crunch the numbers right now, and they show that you have a serious problem with math. You said Bernie makes $9 an ounce, but if silver spot was $25/ounce and your price was $28/ounce then Bernie actually made $3/ounce.
How much will Bernie pay to buy back that 100 oz bar? I'm just going to keep asking until you tell me, so you may as well stop ignoring this question and tell me.
I trust my intuition.
Your intuition has not served you well. It would probably be far more accurate to say that unable to reason through real world information to logical conclusions, you just do what you feel like and call it your intuition.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Phat, posted 08-05-2021 5:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 08-07-2021 1:41 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 262 of 773 (887502)
08-07-2021 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
08-07-2021 1:41 AM


Re: Protecting your Ass(ets)
Phat writes:
Percy writes:
I can crunch the numbers right now, and they show that you have a serious problem with math. You said Bernie makes $9 an ounce, but if silver spot was $25/ounce and your price was $28/ounce then Bernie actually made $3/ounce.
Bernie has made up to $9.00 an ounce commission as I bought some American Eagles that had higher premiums. You are correct that on this particular transaction Bernie only made $3.00 an ounce.
Bernie made *only* $3/oz on your silver bar??? That's a 12% markup. That you can refer to a 12% markup as "only" just shows how far gone you are. That you have many other rubes for company doesn't make 12% a reasonable markup. Bernie made $300 total on your silver bar. Again, your supermarket markup is around 1%, just to put things in perspective.
Do you know what the commission is on a typical stock transaction with Schwab (I don't use Schwab, I looked up their price table online)? Zero dollars if you do it online, up to $25 if you use one of their brokers.
I recently sold a significant block of stock where the price per share was $135, and I paid about a penny per share or 0.007%. The comparison with your silver transaction is stark: I paid 0.007%, you paid 12% or about 1700 times more. Does something sound a little off to you? Are you beginning to think that maybe you metal traders are being scammed? It will be very difficult for anyone to make money with 12% overhead.
You really need to read The Pit: A Story of Chicago. After the protagonist finally corners the market in wheat and is on the brink of becoming wealthy beyond measure, farmers around the world suddenly begin delivering wheat to market in unprecedented quantities. The price of wheat crashes and he is bankrupted.
Silver is a commodity just like wheat. The higher the price the more motivated producers become to deliver silver to market, and additional silver hits the market in the form of jewelry suddenly valuable. The price of silver will rise and fall and even occasionally peak, but just try identifying that peak.
Most people aren't lucky or disciplined enough to sell anywhere near a peak. What most people do is follow the price down. "It's $95 today, but it was $100 yesterday, so I'll wait for it to go back up and then sell." Then the next day, "Oh, it's $90 today, but it was $100 just a couple days ago, so I'll wait for it to go back up and then sell." And on and on until the price is back where it started, at which point producers are no longer as interested as before in running the mines and smelters 24 hours a day, and old ladies decide to hold on to their jewelry.
Put your money into a diversified portfolio of both stock and bond mutual funds with a mix of aggressiveness and conservatism appropriate for your age (preservation of capital becomes more important as you age) and your personality (you need to be able to sleep at night).
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 08-07-2021 1:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by dwise1, posted 08-07-2021 12:27 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 273 of 773 (887522)
08-08-2021 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Phat
08-07-2021 2:25 PM


Re: Protecting your Ass(ets)
Why the abrupt change in tone and content?
Where are the dire warnings to get into metals quick before our investments turn to dust? Why, suddenly, out of the blue, are you a diversified investor only dabbling in metals with a small portion of your funds? Why isn't your diversified S&P portfolio going to go poof along with ours when the dollar is replaced as a global currency? What happened to the concerns about market manipulation? Why, if the bulk of your funds are in traditional securities, aren't you targeting your investment funds at companies situated to benefit from the coming crisis you believe is imminent.
Something's fishy. I think you just woke up today and decided to try to put on a rational face. Who knows what the reality is.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Phat, posted 08-07-2021 2:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 08-08-2021 1:57 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 288 of 773 (887564)
08-10-2021 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Phat
08-09-2021 4:03 PM


Re: Only God will Ever Control Me(and even then He won't)
Tanypteryx replied to this message saying, "Your bullshit is getting really disgusting." I understand this reaction, particularly the bullshit part, but I'm less disgusted than stunned at your confused and contradictory thinking and at your right wing bias.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Phat, posted 08-09-2021 4:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(5)
Message 313 of 773 (887676)
08-19-2021 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Phat
08-14-2021 4:13 PM


Re: You might even learn something.
Phat writes:
The bottom line is that humans need God. They need a source of love, wisdom, and truth higher than what we collectively conceive and believe internally.
Then how are atheists, agnostics and "nothing in particular" getting by? Atheists and agnostics rank near the top in income when included with religious groups (How income varies among U.S. religious groups | Pew Research Center). While 4% of Americans are atheists, only .1% of people in prison are atheists, so atheists are getting locked up much less than your average American and are therefore more moral than your average American. Most atheists think family very important as a source of meaning (10 facts about atheists | Pew Research Center). Atheists are more knowledgable about religion than your average religious person.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 08-14-2021 4:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(5)
Message 314 of 773 (887677)
08-19-2021 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by Phat
08-16-2021 4:53 PM


Re: Darker Future For USA
Phat writes:
This whole BLM and "woke" nonsense is a liberal's wet dream...not anything sane or productive.
Your racist side is coming out again.
Exactly. All Matter. All have the same value. There should never be a scapegoat group of outliers anymore.
It is their victimization, some of it lethal, at the hands of law enforcement and the legal system that requires reminding that black lives matter. There is no need to remind people that white lives matter because they're already receiving privileged treatment from law enforcement and the legal system.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Phat, posted 08-16-2021 4:53 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(5)
Message 315 of 773 (887678)
08-19-2021 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Phat
08-18-2021 1:56 PM


Re: Darker Future For USA
Phat writes:
My problem with BLM is that they take it upon themselves to rectify moral issues by targeting an entire group--white people. So why don't I trust "them"?
Uh...because you're racist?
Basically, you're against Black Lives Matter because they're protesting their treatment by law enforcement, the legal system, and white people in general. Statistics make clear that their mistreatment is very real. Why should they not object? And why, once they object, do you vilify them for objecting to this unfairness?
If each and every ethnic group or nation/state(such as the Kurds, the Croatians, the American Indians, etc etc) that has been unfairly treated were to demand reparations, the logistics of quantifying such an issue and of holding people accountable would be nearly impossible to sort out. BLM seeks only compensation for Black people. The seeming target? White people. This is exclusivist and could in no fair way ever be resolved.
If your sole objection to BLM were because of the reparations aspect then you would have a valid point, but you mix in too many racist-based objections.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Phat, posted 08-18-2021 1:56 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(5)
Message 321 of 773 (887735)
08-21-2021 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 318 by Phat
08-20-2021 3:44 PM


Re: Darker Future For USA
Phat writes:
I'm simply against agendas that will negatively affect me.
You're not against policies that will negatively affect you. You're just against policies that you're *told* will negatively affect you, and the explanation you're provided for why they'll negatively affect you is that the beneficiaries are lazy, immoral, thieves who will rob the public coffers dry and then out-reproduce you to vote into office people who will make your situation even worse.
The reality is that Republicans are preying upon your paranoia and inherent racist biases. Those of other races are people just like you, no better, no worse. Blacks of this country make less money and are locked up and murdered more often because of whites. Central Americans clambering at our southern border are people just like you born into less fortunate circumstances.
You have not the means to be materially generous to these people, but you might at least be politically generous and stop being such a selfish prick. The whole white supremacist movement is just one big "I got mine and you ain't gonna get any" party.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by Phat, posted 08-20-2021 3:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Phat, posted 08-21-2021 12:45 PM Percy has replied
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 12-03-2021 10:42 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 328 of 773 (887745)
08-21-2021 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by Phat
08-21-2021 12:40 PM


Re: Darker Future For USA
Phat writes:
Well if you can convince me that I won't end up closer to being as poor as the ones I am trying to help (as you feel no shame in being) then I'll drop this argument for good.
So it's not about God or morality or what's right to you, it's just about money. You should try reading your Bible sometime:
Mat 5:40 and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;
Acts 20:35 It is more blessed to give than to receive.
Luke 6:38 Give to others, and God will give to you.
Mark 12:41-44 I tell you that this poor widow put more in the offering box than all the others. For the others put in what they had to spare of their riches; but she, poor as she is, put in all she had—she gave all she had to live on.
Luke 14:12-14 When you give a lunch or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or your rich neighbors—for they will invite you back, and in this way you will be paid for what you did.When you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind; and you will be blessed, because they are not able to pay you back. God will repay you on the day the good people rise from death.
Mat 5:42 When someone asks you for something, give it to him; when someone wants to borrow something, lend it to him.
Sure you could wind up poorer if you follow the dictates of your religion. What does that matter? Your reward will be in heaven.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by Phat, posted 08-21-2021 12:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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