The only counter-argument that most of you have is..."Well what do you expect? He is a conservative nut".
Well, conservative nuts are as conservative nuts do.
Did you even listen to any of that? Or did it just sooth your confirmation bias and reinforce your snowflake butt-hurt that "leftists" are just mean bullies whose only goal is to make you feel guilty and hurt your delicate feelings.
That's what I heard and not just here. Their rhetoric against The 1619 Project has nothing whatsoever to do with any valid criticisms. The 1619 Project's goal is to make known the role and consequences of slavery in US history. And indeed, anyone who knows much about US history can see that. Yet when we look at primary and secondary level textbooks, slavery is either ignored or whitewashed with depictions of content slaves who constantly sang for joy (that depiction which I read is from a Christian school textbook). But when the conservatives speak out against the 1619 Project, they do so on the basis that it will make the white students feel bad about themselves. Nothing about actual history, nor about the consequences of slavery that still affect us in the present, nor about any valid criticism of the Project. Instead, their goal is to keep the white students (and themselves) ignorant of the truth.AND to generate fake culture-war outrage in their right-wing followers, the same as with their more recent fake outrage about Dr. Seuss and Mr Potatohead and their more traditional fake outrage over the President wearing a tan suit (as least for Obama -- Biden hasn't worn one yet so they haven't had the opportunity, though McConnell has been photographed wearing a tan suit, so where's all the outrage now?) As conservative nuts do.
Same thing with their latest boogeyman, critical race theory (CRT), which they're turning into yet another conservative BS lie (as conservative nuts do). They wail and bemoan that it's meant to make the poor white students feel guilty and bad about themselves (poor next generation of little snowflakes). They're even passing laws against CRT being taught in the public schools which has never happened! CRT is a subject that is covered in law school (which is equivalent to working on a doctorate), and normally in the last year at that! Their use of CRT as a boogeyman is an outrageous BS lie which they are telling in order to create hysteria among their followers, the better to deceive and lead by the nose with. As conservative nuts do.
The thing about white privilege is that it's a situation that should not exist, yet it does. Making us aware of it is not to make us feel bad about ourselves, but rather to work to correct the situation.
I'm running out of time (dance classes at 1800). Do you know what a zero-sum game is? It's a situation in which you and someone else can either win or lose, but in order for you to win, the other guy must lose. If the other guy wins, then you lose. That is the mindset of conservative, of Trump, and obviously of you (or else you're catching those fleas from the conservative kennels you frequent).
In reality, there are many exchanges (AKA games) which are non-zero-sum. In such games, everybody can win, just not the entire pot. That's where negotiating comes into play. In order to get something you want, you let them have something that they want. Basically, win-win situations. Which Trump could never understand, which is why he couldn't negotiate his way out of a soaking wet paper bag.
The conservative BS that you're being fed is steeped in zero-sum mentality that if these other groups get something, then it's entire at your expense. Even to the point that if they win, then you lose. We keep seeing you express that. That's not the way that things actually work.
Gotta go.
Edited by dwise1, : added conservative outrage to conservative goals against 1619 Project
So he admits that white privileged exists, but then insists that admitting it is somehow accusing all white people of “a collective crime”. It isn’t. It’s simply recognising the fact that due to current and past racism, being white is an advantage. And to call that ‘racist” is an obvious reversal of the truth.
A smear is not a rational argument.
quote:I totally agree. The only counter-argument that most of you have is..."Well what do you expect? He is a conservative nut
If you agree than I hope that you can support his assertions - you certainly don’t quote anything that does. Or are his claims as false as your assertion that we have no answer?
He contradicts himself between 01 and 05. How is that rational?
Nobody is talking about any "collective crime". Recognizing that white privilege exists is just that - recognizing a fact. If you recognize that the black guy has had a tougher time of it than you and if you maybe cut him a break once in a while, that's nice too.
And recognizing racism is not racism.
In a 14-line transcript of a 28-second clip you've shown quite well what an idiot Peterson is.
And it isn't even because he's a "conservative nut". He's a wannabe "conservative thinker".
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
you've shown quite well what an idiot Peterson is.
And it isn't even because he's a "conservative nut". He's a wannabe "conservative thinker".
Interesting.
I suppose that our next step is to showcase what a true conservative thinker would think. And while we are at it, let us compare and contrast what a true liberal thinker might say.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” - Criss Jami, Killo
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
I suppose that our next step is to showcase what a true conservative thinker would think. And while we are at it, let us compare and contrast what a true liberal thinker might say.
The first step of that would be to list what true conservative thought even is (as well as true liberal thought).
For true conservative thought, you would need to go back decades to find it. They still use the old buzzwords, but that's not what they're about anymore.
An author calls the GQP "post-policy" meaning that they have no policy and no interest in governance. All they are devoted to is gaining and holding political power. They have no idea what to do with that power once they have it, nor do they have any desire to try to figure it out.
ABE: In case I wasn't quite clear: Exactly what is true conservative thought and just what the hell does true conservative thought have to do with the current batch of right-wingnuts?
Conservatives used to stand for something. Like America, the Constitution of the United States of America, national defense, the military, the police, the Rule of Law, fiscal responsibility and conservativism, family values, etc. But not anymore. They now side with Russia and Putin! They stage and and continue to support an insurrection against the US government, seeking to destroy the Constitution of the United States of America. They are now calling to defund the military, which was a recurring theme in the Trump Administration. They approve of the vicious assaults on the Capitol police and not only refuse to recognize the police for protecting and saving the lives of the members and staff of Congress, but they (Congress Republicans) are doing everything they can to block any investigation into those assaults against police. They obstruct justice and the law at every turn. They give away great wealth to the wealthy and blithely start expensive wars (eg, Iraq and Afghanistan) without providing any way to pay for them -- time after time a Republican administration has exploded the deficit and destroyed the US economy leaving it up to the incoming Democratic administration to clean up the Republicans' mess while at the same time having to fight Republican obstruction (it's only when a Democrat is in the Oval Office that Republicans suddenly make a big hypocritical show of worrying about the deficit).
These right-wingnuts have nothing to do with actual conservative ideas. They are just pursuing their own agendas of deceiving and misleading the public to the detriment of our country.
Here is part of the reason for the Right's current call to defund the military because of the military's efforts to get rid of white supremacy in their ranks. From Military Times: Is critical race theory OK for U.S. military? "Be open-minded and widely read," says top general:
As I have shared here before, at the US Air Force NCO Academy (I attended Air Force Communications Command (AFCC) Leadership School in 1982) they did teach us Marxism and Communism along with the structure of the Soviet government. Not in any attempt to turn us into Marxists or Communists, quite the contrary. To quote from The Art of War by Sun Tzu:
quote:Scroll III (Offensive Strategy):
Therefore I say: "Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril.
When you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal.
If ignorant both of your enemy and of yourself, you are certain in every battle to be in peril."
From the way it has been presented, my understanding is that Gen. Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was responding to further innuendo from not-yet-indicted child sex trafficker Matt "The Git" Gaetz who, lacking the courage to do so in person, wrote a nasty tweet about Gen. Milley. A retired Lt.Gen. replied pointing out that each one of the ten (10) overseas service stripes on Gen. Milley's right sleeve represents six months of combat duty and that retired Gen. Lloyd Austin, Secretary of Defense, has earned even more of those service stripes but he cannot wear them on his suit. So, Matt Gaetz, do you really want to do this?
I suppose that our next step is to showcase what a true conservative thinker would think.
As I have said before, conservatism isn't necessarily evil. It depends on what you want to conserve.
If you want to conserve "family values", that's a good thing - as long as you don't consider persecuting homosexuals a family value. If you want to conserve the "good old days" of slavery - or even the good old days when black people "knew their place" - that's a bad thing.
Phat writes:
And while we are at it, let us compare and contrast what a true liberal thinker might say.
I have also said before, conservatives tend to think of the nation as a business - the less-productive members have to fall by the wayside; liberals tend to think of the nation as a family - you feed your children whether you can afford it or not.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
As I have said before, conservatism isn't necessarily evil. It depends on what you want to conserve.
Let me think about this one. 1) I want to conserve low prices. I want to conserve the US Lifestyle in the early 70's before inflation took off and made us just like any other country. All we have left is the dollar...and soon the global reserve status will be lost and all of us Americans will have to work twice as hard and pay twice as much. We don't want that. 2) We thus need to conserve our powerful military. Granted its being a bit of a bully and expansionist empire that got us in trouble....and I'm all for being nice to every other race and people...but can it be done while still preserving our quality of life? If not, we have identified the inevitable problem that Americans must confront. Jon Jost identified this problem in the
Message 1
I don't think we (the people) will let go of our entitled lifestyles that easily. Which will only hurt us more later.
ringo writes:
I have also said before, conservatives tend to think of the nation as a business - the less-productive members have to fall by the wayside; liberals tend to think of the nation as a family - you feed your children whether you can afford it or not.
Liberals go a step farther. They think of the world as a family. Which is easy if they are rich like the majority of EvC is. It's not easy for the blue-collar uneducated working class, however. They would turn to the military and the Politicians for help preserving their diminishing lifestyle. After all, they work hard enough. Why must they get paid less and become the butlers and servents of a rising global middle class that has advantages over them?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” - Criss Jami, Killo
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
There were never any "low prices" that didn't come with low wages. When I finished high school, the minimum wage was about $1.75 an hour. So what if prices were "lower"? You couldn't buy more.
Phat writes:
I want to conserve the US Lifestyle in the early 70's before inflation took off and made us just like any other country.
There have always been periods of inflation. There's nothing there to conserve.
Phat writes:
...and soon the global reserve status will be lost...
Good.
Phat writes:
We thus need to conserve our powerful military.
How is that a "thus"? What are you going to do with your military? Got out and grab more lebensraum? How will throwing away money on military adventures like Afghanistan reduce inflation?
Phat writes:
...but can it be done while still preserving our quality of life?
As somebody else has been trying to tell you, it is not a zero-sum game. When the bottom of the totem-pole benefits, you will benefit too.
Phat writes:
If not, we have identified the inevitable problem that Americans must confront.
No. You definitely have not.
Phat writes:
Liberals go a step farther. They think of the world as a family.
Yes.
Phat writes:
Which is easy if they are rich like the majority of EvC is.
So why do rich people tend to be conservative?
Phat writes:
It's not easy for the blue-collar uneducated working class, however. They would turn to the military and the Politicians for help preserving their diminishing lifestyle.
Again, how? How is an expensive military going to preserve your lifestyle? Plunder and pillage?
Phat writes:
Why must they get paid less and become the butlers and servents of a rising global middle class that has advantages over them?
You have it backwards. You should be asking yourself why the rest of the world has to perpetually be your hewers of wood and drawers of water.
Phat writes:
Let me think about this one.
Please do. All you've done so far is regurgitate the same old same old.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
...and soon the global reserve status will be lost...
Good.
Stop and think. You just agreed that we are all family. Think about the hardships you would place on your American family if we were to lose that status.
quote:All trading nations, goes the argument, have to hold the dollar as the price for doing business in an increasingly integrated dollar-based world economy.
“Even so, the dollar’s share of official foreign-exchange reserves has declined from a little over 70% in 2000 to a little less than 60% today, according to the Bank for International Settlements. That downtrend could gather momentum in the years ahead, especially with the U.S. currently leading the charge in de-globalization and decoupling. With America’s share of reserves well in excess of its share in world GDP and trade, such a correction might well be inevitable in an increasingly fragmented, multi-polar world.”
The natural instinct for a weak dollar is to buy hard assets like gold. However, Roach says those markets are simply too small. They will not be able to absorb the tsunami of dollars looking for a new home.
Phat writes:
We thus need to conserve our powerful military.
What are you going to do with your military?
Keep everybody honest. Not letting them dogpile on the US if we end up suffering. ...but can it be done while still preserving our quality of life?
ringo writes:
As somebody else has been trying to tell you, it is not a zero-sum game. When the bottom of the totem pole benefits, you will benefit too.
Im not going to wait until 3 billion people get a rising tide to bring them up near me before I too resume climbing. What you upper-middle-class liberals do is you elect altruistic idealistic governments and pay taxes as if the government is the secular church. You then feel better about the world. In a way, you support the rest of the world coming up on a rising tide before you allow your own populists to grow their small businesses. You support the educated foreigners taking their spot before helping you own countrymen.
The problem is that we can no longer expect prosperity based only on our strength. We need to work our blessed ASSurences off in order to get it. No fun for the old-timers.
Phat writes:
Liberals go a step farther. They think of the world as a family.
Yes.
Phat writes:
Which is easy if they are rich like the majority of EvC is.
So why do rich people tend to be conservative?
They aren't all conservative. Only the wealthiest of the wealthy tend to lean that way for obvious reasons. They don't want you and your ilk taxing away all their money to raise the tide.
Phat writes:
It's not easy for the blue-collar uneducated working class, however. They would turn to the military and the Politicians for help preserving their diminishing lifestyle.
Again, how? How is an expensive military going to preserve your lifestyle?
Protect me from other rising bullies who want to strip me of my entitlements.
ringo writes:
You should be asking yourself why the rest of the world has to perpetually be your hewers of wood and drawers of water.
in the end, someone has to do it. Unless we get drones to do it...now there's an idea.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : sub title
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” - Criss Jami, Killo
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
You just agreed that we are all family. Think about the hardships you would place on your American family if we were to lose that status.
No, no, no, no, no. We have a member of the family who is grabbing more than his share of privileges. I am NOT going to help him do that. I want him to lose his privileges for the benefit of the underprivileged.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
What are you going to do with your military?
Keep everybody honest.
But you've never done that with them before. You've used them to throw your weight around, and often made the situation worse instead of better.
Phat writes:
Not letting them dogpile on the US if we end up suffering. ...but can it be done while still preserving our quality of life?
Well, of course not. Your military is one of the biggest threats to your quality of life.
Phat writes:
What you upper-middle-class liberals do....
I'm definitely not "upper-middle-class". I would call YOU lower middle class and I'm below you on the totem pole.
Phat writes:
You support the educated foreigners taking their spot before helping you own countrymen.
Of course. Why should I favor somebody who is less qualified just because we accidentally happened to be born close to each other?
Phat writes:
Only the wealthiest of the wealthy tend to lean that way for obvious reasons.
If the reasons are obvious, why are you denying that the rich tend to be conservative?
Phat writes:
They don't want you and your ilk taxing away all their money to raise the tide.
I really wish you would read what I post instead of making it up in your head. I have said more than once that I am NOT in favor of taxing the rich. I'm in favor of the poor paying for the services they use and to hell with the rich. And we can accomplish that, for a start, by raising the minimum wage so the working poor can afford to pay taxes. That doesn't deprive you of your precious ivory backscratcher.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
How is an expensive military going to preserve your lifestyle?
Protect me from other rising bullies who want to strip me of my entitlements.
I asked you to think. Why didn't you?
It's the cost of your military that endangers your entitlements. The only "bullies" who threaten your entitlements are the poor who are trying to rise to your level. Are you going to sic the military on them?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You should be asking yourself why the rest of the world has to perpetually be your hewers of wood and drawers of water.
in the end, someone has to do it.
That's the same argument that was used to keep the negroes picking cotton. And it was out of date then.
But again, all you're doing is trotting out your selfish complaints. You're not discussing Liberals or Conservatives at all.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
That's the same argument that was used to keep the negroes picking cotton. And it was out of date then.
I think Phat has fallen for a line of thinking similar to LBJ's
If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
except instead of "give him someone to look down on" they're giving him some one to "fear".
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
Our basic entitlements are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Don't give me any liberal elite globalism...we are NOT ordinary. Dont try and make us so.
ringo writes:
The only "bullies" who threaten your entitlements are the poor who are trying to rise to your level. Are you going to sic the military on them?
Of course not. Although I disagree with this basic statement:
ringo writes:
Why should I favor somebody who is less qualified just because we accidentally happened to be born close to each other?
Because it starts with Nationalism and NOT Globalism. You seem to favor a global meritocracy where people earn their status through education and to hell with our fellow countrymen. Just because the middle clas educated elitists at EvC all happen to be liberal leaning? Just because they have college degrees does not mean supporting globalism over nationalism.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” - Criss Jami, Killo
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
Wasn't it Asimov who bemoaned the state of affairs today when he said:
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
Phat reminds me of it when he spouts:
Because it starts with Nationalism and NOT Globalism. You seem to favor a global meritocracy where people earn their status through education and to hell with our fellow countrymen. Just because the middle clas educated elitists at EvC all happen to be liberal leaning? Just because they have college degrees does not mean supporting globalism over nationalism.
But Nationalism is the Epitomy of Stupidity Unchained. It gave us all manner of horrors, more recently Hitler, Musselini, Reagan, Trump and the Republican assholes.
But Nationalism is the Epitomy of Stupidity Unchained. It gave us all manner of horrors, more recently Hitler, Musselini, Reagan, Trump and the Republican assholes.
While I agree that Trump was an idiot, keep in mind that the people who elected him were not liberal educated elitists. These people felt forgotten by the US, who through people perhaps like you did in fact favor Globalism as the lesser of two evils. I see globalism as a far bigger threat. Do you really want China having the global reserve currency status that we now enjoy? Do you really want us to shelve our military and embrace the planet? Do you really want the CCP pulling the strings rather than the GOP? Do you really think that Biden, Harris, and Cortez favor Globalism over Nationalism? If so, the hillbillies will be back next election if they can get a candidate that supports their welfare more than some European bug scientist.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” - Criss Jami, Killo
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
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