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Author
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Topic: Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 182 of 773 (887046)
07-05-2021 12:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 178 by Phat
07-04-2021 10:03 PM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: Our basic entitlements are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
You're ignoring one word there: pursuit. You're entitled to the pursuit of happiness. You are not entitled to have happiness handed to you on a silver platter. And the preamble to that phrase is, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...." All men - and let's include women too, just for fun - are entitled to the pursuit of happiness, e.g. they are entitled to compete for your job. And don't forget that the pursuit of happiness means being able to choose the person you marry, regardless of race, color, creed, gender, etc.
Phat writes: Don't give me any liberal elite globalism...
I don't. You're the one who thinks he's elite, remember?
Phat writes: ...we are NOT ordinary.
But you could work your way up to ordinary.
Phat writes: Dont try and make us so.
It's up to you to do that - by embracing ordinary things like universal healthcare. You can aspire to becoming civilized. You can come into the twentieth century - and then, who knows what?
Phat writes: ringo writes: Are you going to sic the military on them?
Of course not.
Then your position doesn't add up. The unwashed masses are your enemies and you want the military to protect you from them.
Phat writes: ringo writes: Why should I favor somebody who is less qualified just because we accidentally happened to be born close to each other?
Because it starts with Nationalism and NOT Globalism.
It shouldn't. Nationalism is one of the worst plagues ever known to mankind. It caused two world wars and a lot of smaller ones. Untold millions of deaths. Shove your nationalism back up your ass where it came from.
Phat writes: You seem to favor a global meritocracy where people earn their status through education...
Of course. What's bad about that?
Phat writes: ... and to hell with our fellow countrymen.
Not at all. My fellow countrymen have better access to education than most people in the world. They already have a leg up. They don't have to step on the less privileged to get ahead. They're already ahead. But they do have to earn the right to stay there.
Phat writes: Just because the middle clas educated elitists at EvC all happen to be liberal leaning?
Stop it. I told you I'm not an elite. Don't move the goalposts. And you're still just talking about your own petty entitlements. Say something about liberals and conservatives.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 178 by Phat, posted 07-04-2021 10:03 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 185 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-05-2021 1:04 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 183 of 773 (887047)
07-05-2021 12:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 180 by Phat
07-05-2021 7:58 AM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: While I agree that Trump was an idiot, keep in mind that the people who elected him were not liberal educated elitists.
That's right. Some of them were idiots and some of them were evil.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by Phat, posted 07-05-2021 7:58 AM | | Phat has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-05-2021 12:56 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 188 of 773 (887061)
07-06-2021 12:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by Phat
07-05-2021 11:28 PM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: How meritocracy harms everyone — even the winners
What Markovits is talking about is the existing American system. What you have been arguing against is a true merit-based system, under which, for example, China could take precedence over the US because it does a better job. You're advocating a system under which the US always takes precedence, no matter how bad a job it does. Edited by ringo, : Spoiling.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by Phat, posted 07-05-2021 11:28 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 190 by dwise1, posted 07-06-2021 1:56 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 192 of 773 (887078)
07-07-2021 12:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 190 by dwise1
07-06-2021 1:56 PM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
dwise1 writes: So just what the hell is Phat talking about? One thing I'm pretty sure of is that he has no idea himself.
I was going to say, he's like a stormtrooper on a street corner shouting slogans.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 190 by dwise1, posted 07-06-2021 1:56 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 193 by Phat, posted 07-09-2021 7:10 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 194 of 773 (887090)
07-09-2021 12:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
07-09-2021 7:10 AM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: Much of my argumentation is an addictive pattern of whining. I get caught up in poking the lion with a stick.
So stop doing that. Debate honestly.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 193 by Phat, posted 07-09-2021 7:10 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 195 by Phat, posted 07-09-2021 3:29 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 202 of 773 (887100)
07-10-2021 10:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 195 by Phat
07-09-2021 3:29 PM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: i might point out that being squeezed by the global population from the already spartan lifestyle which i now enjoy concerns and irritates me greatly.
You've been harping on that for years. Enough already!
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 195 by Phat, posted 07-09-2021 3:29 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 206 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:36 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Sarah Bellum writes: As for that "feeding the children", don't you mean, instead, to describe the point of view that children should be fed by the national "family" even if their real family can't afford it?
The point was that the children should be fed, whether it's "affordable" or not. Conservatives tend to try to weasel out by saying, "Is it really, really, really helping them or is it just making them dependent?" Meaning, "What's in it for me?" It doesn't matter. Feed them first. Then worry about making them independent.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 209 of 773 (887130)
07-12-2021 12:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 205 by Phat
07-12-2021 10:34 AM
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Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes: ... that sort of thinking will transcend Nationalism...
Yes. Shove your nationalism.
Phat writes: ...the issue will be the mandatory part.
It's already mandatory, according to Jesus. Mistreat the least of these and He doesn't know you.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 205 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:34 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 213 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 11:53 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 210 of 773 (887131)
07-12-2021 12:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 206 by Phat
07-12-2021 10:36 AM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: I know I know...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one!
That has NOTHING to do with what you quoted. In Message 195 you said, "i might point out that being squeezed by the global population from the already spartan lifestyle which i now enjoy concerns and irritates me greatly." You have already "pointed that out" a thousand times. You don't need to point it out again like it's a big surprise to me.
Phat writes: As I said above, the problem begins when a global consensus makes it mandatory. Government becomes our master rather than our slave.
In a democracy, the government is US. It isn't some mysterious entity forcing us to be decent human beings. It's US. Edited by ringo, : No reason given.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 206 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:36 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 245 by Phat, posted 08-03-2021 9:05 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 211 of 773 (887132)
07-12-2021 12:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 207 by Phat
07-12-2021 10:39 AM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: Right-Wing Thugs = the wealthy 1%.
And their henchmen - i.e. you. You're like the poor whites who fought so ferociously to preserve slavery even though it harmed them.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 207 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:39 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 218 of 773 (887143)
07-13-2021 12:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 213 by Phat
07-12-2021 11:53 PM
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Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes: And you don't even believe in Jesus.
But you claim you do, even though you constantly scoff at Him.
Phat writes: You just use His massages to support your pet globalism...
Nope. I use His messages to demonstrate that your Jesus is entirely made up.
Phat writes: ...which mandates that the rich MUST feed the poor...
Oh come on. Any decent person would feed the poor. It's not a matter of your boogey-man "globalism" at all. It's a matter of human decency.
Phat writes: ...damn the bill.
Damn right. You feed your children, no matter what the cost.
Phat writes: In essence, you think that a global government should control global money for the interests of all.
Will you LISTEN for once? I have NEVER said one single, solitary word about governemt mandating anything. STOP making that false claim. I have said that helping the less fortunate should be what everybody wants - ESPECIALLY if they claim to be Christians. Helping the less fortunate DOES benefit everybody. Let me tell you a story:
A while back, I was sitting outside the Library using the free wi-fi. A young fellow (well, thirty-five-ish) came and sat down beside me. He asked me if I liked the song he was listening to. I said I had never heard it before. He asked me what kind of music I like and, with hesitation, I told him I used to listen to a lot of heavy-metal. He asked for an example. I hesitated again and said, "Judas Priest." He looked on his phone and found a Judas Priest playlist and asked me to pick a song. When I picked one, he played it and he grinned from ear to ear. His stepfather used to play that song all the time. When he got up to leave, I noticed he had left his wallet on the bench between us so I reminded him not to forget it. He was so grateful (he said there was several hundred dollars in it) that he offered me $5 as a reward. I told him I didn.t need it, give it to somebody who needs it. He told me to give it to somebody who needs it. So... Chapter Two. I walked around for a while with that $5 burning a hole in my pocket. I seldom pay cash for anything any more but I was concerned that i might spend it on myself without thinking. Then, a while later, I was sitting outside the Library again, using the free wi-fi again, when another young man came up to me and asked if I could help him. I told him it depended on what kind of help he needed. (I'm not much use pushing cars out of snowbanks any more - it was June anyway, but....) He mumbled something about spare change. I (figurateively) jumped for joy and told him this story: "A while back, I was sitting outside the Library using the free wi-fi. a young fellow (well, thirty-five-ish) came and sat down beside me. He asked me if I liked the song he was listening to...." When I got to the part about the $5, I took it out of my pocket and gave it to him. He practically had tears in his eyes, he was so grateful. So... I made three people happy - the guy who gave me the money, the guy I gave it to, and myself - and it didn't cost me a cent.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 213 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 11:53 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 221 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 1:22 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 219 of 773 (887144)
07-13-2021 12:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
07-13-2021 12:06 AM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: And ringo, Jesus may have initially advocated it, but the humans who will be implementing and running it are far far removed from Him.
Not as far as you are.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 214 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 12:06 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 220 of 773 (887145)
07-13-2021 12:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
07-13-2021 7:53 AM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: Dont you get it? Its the minions who are ultimately the Left Wing Thugs.
How can anybody "get it" if you move the goal posts?
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 216 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 7:53 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 222 of 773 (887147)
07-13-2021 1:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 221 by Phat
07-13-2021 1:22 PM
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Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes: Why do you sit outside the library? Why don't you go in?
The Library was closed for a while in the spring and when they re-opened, they discouraged people from staying too long. The wi-fi works 24/7, holidays, etc.
Phat writes: If your house was sold/repossessed/taken by family, does that make YOU homeless or do you have a place to stay?
The title is in dispute. I was behind in the taxes and the city wanted me to pay either more money than I had in a lump sum OR more than I make in a month every month OR they would apply to the province to take the title. So I moved into an apartment and they can do what they like.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 221 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 1:22 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 225 of 773 (887155)
07-15-2021 12:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 224 by Phat
07-15-2021 1:27 AM
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Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes: I would assert that the Left Wing is a refuge for humanists who don't believe in a power higher than themselves.
We don't need a refuge.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 224 by Phat, posted 07-15-2021 1:27 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 226 by Phat, posted 07-15-2021 3:18 PM | | ringo has replied |
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