Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 257 of 1864 (796093)
12-22-2016 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Phat
12-22-2016 2:17 AM


Re: Four spiritual laws remix
Why did god need help?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Phat, posted 12-22-2016 2:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 271 of 1864 (797459)
01-21-2017 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
01-21-2017 4:41 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:
OK. If so, is it possible that all atheists have already been given the opportunity to know God?
Which God Phat, which god? Vishnu, Allah, Thor? Have Christians been given the opportunity to ignore them and all the others?
The next question is why would one prefer to ignore Him?
There's nothing to ignore. How can a mythical creature that has no tangible or intangible impact on my life be ignored. You don't ignore things that don't exist. Neither you nor I are ignoring pixies are we?
Understanding an atheist's position is easy Phat, you just treat your belief in this god thing, the same as every other fantasy entity. It's absolutely no different.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 4:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:17 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:18 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 274 of 1864 (797465)
01-21-2017 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:18 PM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:
Maybe this explains it Tangle. My irrationality has been notably more prevalent lately.
I wouldn't say you're more irrational, you just seem a bit more 'needy'. Don't worry about it, 'this too will pass'.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 305 of 1864 (811402)
06-07-2017 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Phat
06-07-2017 4:22 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
CRR writes:
The problem is that if you remove the omnipotent nature of God you, in essence, become God yourself by having the power to remove or imagine or create anything.
Remove god entirely and you don't have a problem.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Phat, posted 06-07-2017 4:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 325 of 1864 (811701)
06-10-2017 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Phat
06-10-2017 5:35 PM


Re: .Gods love eases suffering
Phat writes:
To me its all a no-brainer.
Yup.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 5:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 342 of 1864 (811942)
06-13-2017 2:56 PM


Is a world without evil so evil?
When we have these discussions it's almost a default position that having the ability to do harm (free will) is important, even necessary. Is it really?
Obviously - well to me at least - this is a totally specious argument because we are simply another organism competing to survive - competing against each other as well as our environment so harm is inbuilt by biology. Evolution completely explains why we ae the way we are.
Freewill is a purely religious concept so you have to ask, why couldn't god have created a world without harm? Of course the answer is that he did but the Fall did for all that. To introduce the concept of evil, God had to also introduce the evil itself in the form of a talking snake representing a previously fallen angel.
It's a very, very strange and silly idea isn't it?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Phat, posted 06-13-2017 6:45 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 345 by Phat, posted 06-13-2017 6:59 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 352 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-14-2017 1:29 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 375 of 1864 (849031)
02-21-2019 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by Phat
02-21-2019 10:02 AM


Re: Revisiting this old topic.....
Phat writes:
It makes no sense to me why people would spin a story out of thin air for two thousand years if there were nothing to it.
Can you explain Mormonism to me then?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Phat, posted 02-21-2019 10:02 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 407 of 1864 (879556)
07-18-2020 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Phat
07-17-2020 8:13 PM


Re: Rebellious Sons & Obedient Sons
Yes. If you supplied a gun to your neighbour knowing with certainty that he would use it to murder his wife you are jointly charged with the crime. You have common purpose.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Phat, posted 07-17-2020 8:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 431 of 1864 (879696)
07-20-2020 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 429 by Phat
07-20-2020 11:45 AM


Re: Libertarian Free Will
I can guarantee that you've never heard Dennet talking nonsense. You may have heard him say stuff you don't like but he's not known for talking nonsense - not talking nonsense is what he has to do for a living.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by Phat, posted 07-20-2020 11:45 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 449 of 1864 (880568)
08-07-2020 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by Phat
08-07-2020 4:04 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat writes:
Philosophically I see no reason why you can't.
That's because you have no idea what philosophy is.
In you're world it seems to be just making shit up because you like the sound of it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by Phat, posted 08-07-2020 4:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by Phat, posted 08-07-2020 4:22 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 493 of 1864 (887095)
07-10-2021 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 492 by Phat
07-10-2021 2:01 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat writes:
Explain why 1+1+1=1 makes no sense
Ask any five year old. But really, why would anyone care? It's just an angels on pinhead issue, totally pointless.
Can you conceive of a Creator of all seen and unseen?
No. (Even disregarding the silly terminology.) The idea that a 'someone' has to be involved just because we think the way we do is juvenile.
Can you conceive of such a Being imparting His character into a human?
Given what we know of the human character, the concept is totally preposterous isn't it? It's just human hubris as usual.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by Phat, posted 07-10-2021 2:01 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 503 of 1864 (887112)
07-11-2021 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by Phat
07-11-2021 3:41 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat writes:
You can't hold me to a standard that you don't believe to be real.
Try, really try, to get your head round this. It's important. Not to us but to you.
We're trying to point out that you're not holding yourself to your own standard.
It's not a defence to say that we don't believe what you believe. You're just deflecting. If you're honest, you'd address what's being said.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 07-11-2021 3:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Phat, posted 07-11-2021 4:04 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 505 of 1864 (887114)
07-11-2021 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by Phat
07-11-2021 4:04 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat writes:
ou don't get that nobody does what they should, though some put on a show.
I think you'll find that that is exactly our point.
You're the guy that talks to Jesus remember? You're the one that's saved. Yet you appear to be exactly like everyone else. Except you do the "Lord, Lord, Lord" stuff and watch a lot of YouTubes of people just like you.
How does that work?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Phat, posted 07-11-2021 4:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 531 of 1864 (899033)
10-07-2022 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 525 by Dredge
10-06-2022 8:25 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Dredge writes:
The Holy Spirit has certainly "done its job" ... infallibly, in fact, through the Catholic Church.
Catholics used to call it the Holy Ghost. Used to make me laugh - god's spook. He's actually the Holy Rapist though isn't he? He certainly did his job, just ask Mary.
“ The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you”
Catholic priests have carried on the tradition of rape right up to the current day. Catholics are very fond of their traditions.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by Dredge, posted 10-06-2022 8:25 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 828 of 1864 (901265)
11-07-2022 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 827 by Phat
11-07-2022 12:01 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big
The jury has been back for years. The Exodus is pure myth.
quote:
Origins and historicity
See also: Sources and parallels of the Exodus and Historicity of the Bible
There are two main positions on the historicity of the Exodus in modern scholarship.[3] The majority position is that the biblical Exodus narrative has some historical basis, although there is little of historical worth in it.[7][6][11] The other position, often associated with the school of Biblical minimalism,[23][24] is that the biblical exodus traditions are the invention of the exilic and post-exilic Jewish community, with little to no historical basis.[25] The biblical Exodus narrative is best understood as a founding myth of the Jewish people, providing an ideological foundation for their culture and institutions, not an accurate depiction of the history of the Israelites.[26][11] The view that the biblical narrative is essentially correct unless it can explicitly be proved wrong (Biblical maximalism) is today held by "few, if any [...] in mainstream scholarship, only on the more fundamentalist fringes."[3] There is no direct evidence for any of the people or Exodus events in non-biblical ancient texts or in archaeological remains, and this has led most scholars to omit the Exodus events from comprehensive histories of Israel.[27]
The Exodus - Wikipedia

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 827 by Phat, posted 11-07-2022 12:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 831 by candle2, posted 11-11-2022 3:45 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024