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Author Topic:   Trump and Trump supporters keep using the Y2K Fallacy, and it is driving me crazy
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 748
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 121 of 126 (888124)
09-05-2021 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by glowby
08-08-2021 5:41 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
You are incorrect.

The source was, in fact, James Hansen. His West Side Highway prediction assumed a 100% increase in CO2.
Examining Hansen's prediction about the West Side Highway
There's been about a 30% increase (so far) and the sea level rise measured (so far) is in centimeters, not tens of meters.
Climate Change: Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide | NOAA Climate.gov

You would know this if you'd bothered to read my post
https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&m=885382#m885382

Sigh.

Nobody reads my posts. I don't know why I bother posting.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by glowby, posted 08-08-2021 5:41 PM glowby has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 748
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 122 of 126 (888125)
09-05-2021 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Percy
08-04-2021 12:19 PM


I posted the sources at
https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&m=885382#m885382

I clearly wasn't implying they were some sort of consensus, merely pointing out that if you're going to try to persuade people to do something about the environment (which is a good thing to be doing, whether it involves reducing CO2 emissions or heavy metal pollution or agricultural nitrate runoff or . . . ) it helps if you're accurate, rather than hyperbolic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Percy, posted 08-04-2021 12:19 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2021 5:27 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded
 Message 126 by Percy, posted 09-06-2021 10:14 AM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 123 of 126 (888128)
09-05-2021 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Sarah Bellum
09-05-2021 11:48 AM


Sarah Bellum writes:

There's hardly any point in making an artificial distinction, FaceBook bad, EvC good...


It isn't an artificial distinction. EvC is fact-checked by its members, with links to the actual facts.

Sarah Bellum writes:

...four legs good, two legs . . .


You're misusing that image. The pigs started the "two legs bad" chant but then they became just like the two-legged villains. The equivalent would be EvC changing to become just like Facebook.

Edited by ringo, : Srelling.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Sarah Bellum, posted 09-05-2021 11:48 AM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5984
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 124 of 126 (888130)
09-05-2021 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Sarah Bellum
09-05-2021 12:01 PM


... it helps if you're accurate, rather than hyperbolic.

You mean like reason people out of their comfort zone ideas that climate change is a hoax? It's the sun, it's natural, burn baby burn is ok? Who needs spiders and wasps anyway? My 401k is full of big carbon cuz that's the best? It's slow and there's plenty of time?

Well, people can't be reasoned out of ideas they weren't reasoned into in the first place.
Message 118

So scare the shit out of the stupid ones. They're going to watch it happening eventually anyway.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Sarah Bellum, posted 09-05-2021 12:01 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5984
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 125 of 126 (888131)
09-05-2021 6:26 PM


It's coming for you!
If it helps get dumb peoples’ attention then hyperbole can be quite effective.

Populations that are scared can lead to major social movements. Just ask the dictators past and present.

Our global crisis is worse than we thought and deteriorating faster than we thought. People should be scared.

Hyperbolic catastrophic climate dystopian memes need to be all the rage. If the fear engulfs the sheeple to the point of action then maybe we can forestall the worst of this for a few more centuries. Dystopian propaganda to the rescue. Thank you, Dr. Goebbels.

There should be an established funded international Bureau of Hyperbole: Climate Division for funding dystopian disaster flix in Hollywood, Bollywood and all points in between. Propaganda pushes in textbooks, movies, videos, memes, tons of memes and then more memes. Scare the ever-loving’ crap out of people.

Yeah, it intellectually hurts, but with the shape we’re presently in we gotta try everything.

Now is the time for each to find their own motivations. You are a secondary character in a dystopian apocalyptic horror movie. Act like it.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20219
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 126 of 126 (888142)
09-06-2021 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Sarah Bellum
09-05-2021 12:01 PM


Sarah Bellum writes:

if you're going to try to persuade people to do something about the environment...it helps if you're accurate, rather than hyperbolic.

I think what you said earlier in Message 118 applies better:

Well, people can't be reasoned out of ideas they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

For those who are unaffected by facts and rational arguments, what's the right approach? If there's an approach that would convince them to do the right thing, would it be okay to use it even if it were totally untrue?

It feels unethical, but if they're doing the wrong thing for untrue reasons, would it really be wrong to convince them to do the right thing for untrue reasons? Or do ethical considerations override?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Sarah Bellum, posted 09-05-2021 12:01 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
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