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Author Topic:   CATO Institute had a big IMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY survey, April 27, 2021
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 24 of 137 (888180)
09-08-2021 10:52 PM


Republican support for higher immigration levels up 150% with $10,000 fee.
CATO showed that 47% of Democrats supported higher immigration levels, 21% of independents, and 11% of Republicans.
Total raw support for higher immigration levels is 29%
(The issue is more complicated, as polling suggests, but leave it at 29% for now)
A question was then asked if future immigrants would be allowed to live and work here if they paid a $10,000 fee.
31% of Democrats said yes.
28% of Republicans
30% of independents
53% of libertarians
COMBINED TOTAL of all Americans was 30% "yes"
But the the total would be at 37% of all Americans if Democrats held steady at 47%. And the support would be at 44% total IF Democrstic support shot up in a 17 point fashion, like the Republican support did.
Then we could suddenly see a situation where much higher immigration levels are very possible. The question did not comment on allowing citizenship, mind you.
(There are other polling questions that got even more promising answers which indicated that higher immigration levels are possible with radical reforms to immigrant's right to social support programs)
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 25 of 137 (888181)
09-09-2021 1:14 AM


My best effort to get a point across ( to the difficult) Yes, poll question results c
There will be 2 polls.
First poll question is:
Do you favor or oppose allowing immigrants to receive government financial assistance & services?
All Adults 47% support 53% oppose
1 Gen Immigrants 68% support 31% oppose
2 Gen Immigrants 57% support 42% oppose
3 Gen Immigrants 42% support 57% oppose
Native Born Not 2nd Gen 42% support 57% oppose
Democrats 70% support 30% oppose
INDEPENDENTs 41% support 58% oppose
Republicans 22% support 78% oppose
Whites 40% support 60% oppose
Blacks 64% support
Latinos 76% support
Asians 61% support
Now the racial divide, will throw a curve ball. Pay attention!
1 Gen by race:
1 Gen Whites 63% support
1 Gen Latinos 76% support
1 Gen Asians 68% support
2 Gen by race:
2nd Gen Whites 44% support 56% oppose
2nd Gen Latinos 70% support
2nd Gen Asians 68% support
3rd generation by race:
3rd Gen Whites 39% support 61% oppose
3rd Gen Latinos 43% support 57% oppose
3rd Gen Asians 48% support 52% oppose
Do you all see that?
(Black immigrant samples are too small to measure)
(Asian and Latino immigration samples were oversized at 300 each to get vital details from the massively important segments of our society. They were scientifically scaled back to proportion to fit into the larger polls without distortions of the total American body)
So how did the poll manage to show nearly half of Americans support welfare for immigrants when post-2nd-generation Asians, Latinos, and Whites oppose the benefits being available?
The answer is that first & 2nd generation Americans are 26% of the population of the USA. Then there are the Democrats...
(Sad story coming in the next post)

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 26 of 137 (888182)
09-09-2021 1:26 AM


Democrats become the opponents of higher immigration (read post 25 before this)
Democrats looked heroic previously. 70% supported benefits for immigrants that the rest of us get.
Awesome for immigrants, right?
Not so fast!
POLL QUESTION:
Would you favor or oppose increasing immigration to the U.S. if immigrants had to prove before entering that they would not use government welfare services?
All Adults 58% support
Democrats. 47% support
Independents 58% support
1st Generation immigrants 67% support
2nd Generation immigrants 53% support
Native Born. 58% support
Democrats become genuine stoppers of the future gains in immigration levels.
And this is supposed to be the party that supports immigrants?
In this sad world, this is just too sad.
(Where did Bidens promise go? He said we could bring in alot more immigrants per year beyond the 1 million that never budged up in many decades)

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 30 of 137 (888196)
09-09-2021 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Percy
09-09-2021 3:39 PM


Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
Show where I called for benefit moratoriums.
You have been screaming for years about the "problem" of illegal immigration. And the immigrants were clearly, in and of themselves, the problem, to you.
(You seem to be happy with 1 million per year immigration levels.)
You ignore the fact the 45 million immigrants, PRESENTLY RESIDING, strongly support giving up what little (if any) public benefits are available, for higher immigration levels.
(I am personally conlicted on the tradeoff, but I should probably defer to the 67%, of the 46 million immigrants, who support such a policy)
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Percy, posted 09-09-2021 3:39 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Percy, posted 09-10-2021 10:01 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 31 of 137 (888197)
09-09-2021 8:50 PM


Percy's support for border walls documented.
From SIDE ORDERS Forum.
The Trump Presidency thread
Post 2774
No one meant all walls are racist
....
we should build walls
Percy on El Paso's wall
Post 2775:
I would think they'd need a wall or some kind of border security strategy
Post 2775
I hope everyone's in favor of border security

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 1:37 AM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 50 by Percy, posted 09-10-2021 10:13 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 34 of 137 (888203)
09-10-2021 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by PaulK
09-10-2021 1:37 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
I was the one in favor of amnesty.
And you are dishonestly twisting Percy's response
He was attacking my accusations that the Democratic party was not doing enough to help immigrants. He did not like my positive references to Reagan's immigration views.
I proved Hillary Clinton was in favor of deporting children during the large amounts of migration during 2013-2014.
(I was happy she seemed to oppose such, based on her response to Jorge Ramos in the 2016 Univision debate)
(PERcy denied she was ever in favor of deportation during the 2014 "crisis")
(Percy denied her 2016 opposition to deportation of children amounted to allowing children to ultimately remain here. He said it was just about "due process", so ask him for clarity)
I was considering opposition to deportation of children a "good thing", to make it short.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 1:37 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:02 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 35 of 137 (888205)
09-10-2021 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by PaulK
09-10-2021 1:37 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
And I was angry that the Democratic party was only talkingbabout offering amnesty to the 1.4 million children migrants.
The Democratic party talking line was all about the "Dreamers" and "children".
I constantly, during the last 4 years, said the Democratic party sold out (politically) the other 10 million immigrants vulnerable to deportation. Democrats threw 1st generation immigrants (my favorite people) under the bus.
(And amnesty was never a radical position, until the Democrats made it one. That is a fact. In 2016, 81% of Texas 2016 voters, supported a pathway to citizenship for ALL illegal immigrants. Only 15% opposed. This was the actual exit poll, from the day Trump got 52% against Clinton. I happily trumpeted that poll data)
So you are a very dishonest person, PaulK.
Get the heck out of a discussion if all you have to bring is lies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 1:37 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:12 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 36 of 137 (888207)
09-10-2021 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
09-10-2021 8:20 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
Percy said there was a "need" for walls wherever a "natural barrier" (like a river) was not present.
People like Percy made Trump's wall possible.
I said that walls are a racist symbol.
(I did not say that walls were not already present in places, mind you)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 09-10-2021 8:20 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 09-10-2021 10:29 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 38 of 137 (888209)
09-10-2021 9:06 AM


For the record, the CATO study is about all 1st generation immigrants.
That thread, the Trump Presidency, was infact the place dwise was referencing when he, earlier, stated we talked about this before.
I was the one who brought up the fact that 1st generation immigrants pay $63 billion more in taxes than they get in social ssf spending programs.
PaulK lies when he says that the CATO study is not about illegal immigrants.
It is about all illegal and legal 1st generation Americans.

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:25 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 39 of 137 (888211)
09-10-2021 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by PaulK
09-10-2021 9:02 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
You are confusing multiple issues discussed.
I said that Percy had no real immigration strategy, back then.
(He tends to take the official Democratic party position)
I found out he had a love of walls, in short time, however.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:02 AM PaulK has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 41 of 137 (888214)
09-10-2021 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by PaulK
09-10-2021 9:12 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
You are ignorant of how people, without Social Security numbers, can fill out a form to pay taxes.
Your comments about me 'conflating' llegal and illegal immigrants are idiotic. Find something else to nit pick over.
(Like I am going to argue with you over what I mean when I say "immigrant")

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:12 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:33 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 44 of 137 (888218)
09-10-2021 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by PaulK
09-10-2021 9:33 AM


Re: Percy's support for border walls documented.
On the thrown under the bus issue:
First of all, understand that I tend to look at public opinion polls that gauge the larger views of society.
You earlier said that I made it look like Democrats are more supportive of open borders than they actually are. You were taking my poll readings about Americans having divided opinions on the rights of children to migrate here, and then you magically that into me supposedly saying the DNC and official Democratic office holders are somehow opposed to deportation of children.
When it comes to the latter, I would never assume such a thing. The political class is going to be a bundle of soundbites and contradictions, full of people Percy attempts to imitate.
When it comes to the Americans, there has to be caution in reading polling data. American support for ANYTHING is tenuous and often public views change on something, when the national political parties change their view. One example is the drop in support for "amnesty" (your words), from 80% support in 2016, to anywhere from 35% to 55% support today. The public views changed because the Democratic party leadership started speaking out against it, back in 2017.
As for your insistence that need to demonstrate the fact that 1st generation Americans are thrown under the bus, understand that first generation Americans are all immigrants. It is a fact that there will be 1 million immigrants (or lower) every year. The immigration levels affect the future immigration picture. Therefore the prospective 1st generation Americans-in-waiting are affected. The First Generation American issue is an idea, a living ideal, that is based on a hypothesis centered around the future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:33 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 10:10 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 45 of 137 (888220)
09-10-2021 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by PaulK
09-10-2021 9:25 AM


Re: For the record, the CATO study is about all 1st generation immigrants.
I am talking about the cost of first generation immigrants study.
It was in my immigration thread, from 2017. I thought I just saw it in the Trump Presidency thread.
The study found ALL first generation Americans pay, collectively, $63 billion more to the government than they take out.
dwise referenced this in his first post, here. But without a link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 9:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 10:15 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 47 of 137 (888222)
09-10-2021 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Percy
09-10-2021 10:01 AM


Re: The INVERSE RELATIONSHIP rule among public immigration level support.
There was the poll which asked about support or opposition to government financial assistance to immigrants.
47% supported
53% opposed
Then the poll which asked about a trade-off, which offered a landmark INCREASE on immigration levels, with immigrants having to prove they have the financial assistance option taken off the table
58% supported
41% opposed
I have made it VERY clear that I am one of the 47%, and from just about every early post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Percy, posted 09-10-2021 10:01 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 49 of 137 (888224)
09-10-2021 10:11 AM


The CATO poll is about all immigrants.
Not just legal immigrants.
Americans think that most immigrants are illegal anyway. Americans make no distinction. Many , but not most Americans, think that most Asians (immigrant or not) are 1st generation undocumented immigrants.
PaulK keeps saying this poll is only about legal immigrants.

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2021 10:17 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
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