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Author | Topic: CATO Institute had a big IMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY survey, April 27, 2021 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
LamarkNewAge writes: Show where I called for benefit moratoriums. Label it however you like, that's the net effect. You're in favor of benefits for immigrants but only if they pay for them themselves through special taxes that only they themselves pay. If you bill someone for their benefits then they're not benefits. In effect it's a moratorium on benefits for as long as you're taxing them for them.
You have been screaming for years about the "problem" of illegal immigration. And the immigrants were clearly, in and of themselves, the problem, to you. You're confusing me with someone else, I have no idea who.
(You seem to be happy with 1 million per year immigration levels.) Uh, no. I have no idea where you're getting this. The poll question you cited in Message 26 is poorly phrased because it isn't possible to interpret the responses:
Would you favor or oppose increasing immigration to the U.S. if immigrants had to prove before entering that they would not use government welfare services? If asked this question I would have to pass. It wouldn't be possible to register my objection to making potential immigrants prove whether they'd need government services in just a yes or no response. I'm in favor of increased immigration, and I'm against raising additional barriers to immigration. The problem I'm having with your position is that you're using the excuse of a particular poll to justify advocacy of anti-immigrant policies. --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2313 Joined: |
There was the poll which asked about support or opposition to government financial assistance to immigrants.
47% supported 53% opposed Then the poll which asked about a trade-off, which offered a landmark INCREASE on immigration levels, with immigrants having to prove they have the financial assistance option taken off the table 58% supported 41% opposed I have made it VERY clear that I am one of the 47%, and from just about every early post.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Then you should really mention the effect on the polls if it is what you are actually complaining about.
quote: I did no such thing. But let us note that this has nothing to do with the question of how first generation legal immigrants could be “thrown under the bus” by “selling out” those “vulnerable to deportation” (which should not include legal immigrants).
quote: You misrepresent me again. I make no such insistence. I only ask you to explain why a statement which seems to focus on illegal immigrants should be considered to apply to all first generation immigrants.
quote: This hardly seems to address the point. It is far too vague and doesn’t even allege harm serious enough to justify the “thrown under the bus” claim.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2313 Joined: |
Not just legal immigrants.
Americans think that most immigrants are illegal anyway. Americans make no distinction. Many , but not most Americans, think that most Asians (immigrant or not) are 1st generation undocumented immigrants. PaulK keeps saying this poll is only about legal immigrants.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Wow, blatantly obvious dishonesty. A big tip-of-the-hat to PaulK in Message 32 for calling it out and providing accurate information.
--Percy
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: So you accused me of lying about a study I hadn’t even talked about.
quote: And you didn’t even have a good reason for thinking that I was talking about it rather than the study in the title of this thread. In other words your accusation was an outright lie.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: That only shows that there is a lot of racism in America.
quote: I did not say that. I have corrected you on this point already, so you have no excuse.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
LamarkNewAge writes: Percy said there was a "need" for walls wherever a "natural barrier" (like a river) was not present. I wrote about walls a lot. A dishonest person willing to cherry pick quotes, as you apparently are, can make anyone seem to say anything. My actual position on walls is that I have a preference for technology but in places where it's determined that we need walls then we should build walls. The Trump position that I argued against was, "If it's a border then it needs a wall." Trump even initiated efforts to build walls along the Rio Grande, which is already a security barrier. Maybe Jar knows the status of Trump's border wall efforts along the river, which were pretty draconian, for example:
Tell the truth, you'll feel better. --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2313 Joined: |
I will be happy to quote your past posts. It will come later, because, I am about to go to work. I need to use a pencil when quoting.
You will probably say the quotes are out of context. Wont stop me showing you what your positions were in the decisive period that they mattered.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2313 Joined: |
The brand new April 2021 poll is about ALL immigrants.
(-You attacked me for conflating immigrants with different immigration status, and you add specifically said this poll is about American views of legal immigrants. You deny your stupid obsession, now?) Americans rarely worry about whether an immigrant is legal or illegal. You said the 2021 poll gives you no reason to assume that "immigrants" also includes illegal immigrants. I would urge you to look closer. Those polled were asked questions that should clue you in. Read the questions carefully. (
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2313 Joined: |
Do you deny that you said that border lands west of the Rio Grande need a wall?
Do you deny that you felt that any border land, in Texas, will need either the river or a wall?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Much of it is about legal immigration. For instance the question about whether immigration procedures are too difficult is about legal immigration. The question about whether immigration should be banned is about legal immigration.
quote: Since I did not say that the poll “is about American views of legal immigrants” - I said it was largely about legal immigration - I certainly can deny that I have a “stupid obsession”.
quote: Racist Americans like to assume that all suspected immigrants are illegal immigrants. That’s hardly a good reason to ignore the distinction. Indeed, it is siding with the racists.
quote: I certainly did not.
quote: I would urge you to stop lying about what I have said. And to follow your own advice, because you will find that many of the questions deal with legal immigration.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2313 Joined: |
Let me help you here, PaulK
1st generation immigrants (the only actual immigrants) themselves think 60% of Hispanic immigrants are illegal. They as also think 41% of Asians are illegal. 2ng generation immigrants (children of an immigrant parent) think 52% of Hispanic immigrants are illegal and 35% of Asian immigrants are illegal. That should clue you in that 26% of those polled (first & 2and generation immigrants are 26% of the nation) consider immigrants to include illegals. What about the other 74% of us? Third generation Americans or higher think 49% of Hispanic immigrants are illegal and 26% of Asians are. So, the poll questions about "immigrants" will mean that BOTH illegal & legal immigrants are included in the word's definition, unless otherwise stated. Does that help clear up your confusion? Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: How?
quote: I never said that the general class of immigrants did not include illegals. Obviously it does - and these quotes are hardly a good way of making that case. Let me help you. I get that you are going to lie about me - as you have just done. That is not going to persuade me to run away. It just convinces me that you are a vile person.
quote: So? It doesn’t change the fact that illegal immigrants are those who have not gone through the procedures for legal immigration. It doesn’t change the fact that calls for increases in immigration mean increasing legal immigration. It doesn’t change the fact that adding a requirement on immigrants to promise not to use social security is a requirement placed on legal immigrants.
quote: There is no confusion to clear up. I know that you are a lying shit who loves to misrepresent those who disagree.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2313 Joined: |
You keep on bringing up dishonest irrelevancies to clutter and confuse the point.
(You started participating in the thread, by simply quoting Percy's dishonest evasions of my evidence, in The Trump Presidency Thread. I quoted Hillary Clinton telling Christiane Amanpour, in 2014, that she would d er port the children held in custody. But Percy continued to lie) (You lied by claiming I was attacking Hillary Clinton's new political position AGAINST DEPORTATION, in the 2016 Univision debate. I was not against her ultimate position against deportation, but Ramos had to beat it out of her. You said I was using her campaign position to smear Democrats as "amnesty" supporters. Percy did not lie to the level you did) (And I support amnesty but said the Democratic party was a deportation party) This last discussion has do with you saying that I I conflated illegal and illegal immigration. You say that I put all under the term "immigrant", and you linked to the 2021 poll, and said you saw nothing in the text that should cause us to consider the term "immigration", in the questions, to invlude illegal immigration.
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