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Author | Topic: CATO Institute had a big IMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY survey, April 27, 2021 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Percy writes: Maybe Jar knows the status of Trump's border wall efforts along the river, which were pretty draconian, for example: Taking private property along the river by eminent domain to build the wallLeaving entire neighborhoods on the far side of the wall Ignoring all environmental considerations Much of the property was taken and there was a large amount of initial site preparation done. Dirt roads for future construction were created including cutting into several of the dike structures needed to minimize flooding during our brief but severe rains. A small amount of actual fencing was installed but since nowhere were any of the sections joined up the result has been pointless destruction and lots of erosion with absolutely no positive benefits. The costs to remedy the damage already done will equal or exceed what was spent already. As mentioned above lots of the damage will take decades to recover; the damage done to the environment is real and unfortunately we will not know the full extent of damage for several years if not decades. AbE: Also, the whole stupid border wall fiasco diverted funding where it really might have helped by increasing the capacities of the current border crossings as well as increasing the services available to handle people bypassing the overloaded current infrastructure. Edited by jar, : see AbE:My Website: My Website
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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LamarkNewAge writes:
I think your "point" is already sufficiently cluttered and confused. You keep on bringing up dishonest irrelevancies to clutter and confuse the point."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Perhaps we should spend the whole thread on responding to lies?
That is what I have had to do. He said I was saying Democrats were in favor of amnesty. The Trump Presidency thread was full of Percy and me arguing, and I was attacking Democrats for being a deportation party. PaulK is a dishonest disruptor. I ask that he be removed from the discussion.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: That more accurately describes your behaviour.
quote: I entered the thread to correct your misrepresentation of Percy’s post, providing links and placing the quotes in context. This is a fine example of a “dishonest irrelevancy”.
quote: I think you mean that I caught you lying about what Percy had said. That’s the only references to Clinton in my posts - and those are quotes from Percy’s post.
quote: Which you certainly did.
quote: Not true. I said that you seem to count all immigrants as illegal. You even defended that by asserting that many Americans see no difference.
quote: I certainly did not. I said that the poll was largely about legal immigration. “Largely” does not mean “entirely”, and I even provided examples - none of which you disputed.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
So now I call all immigrants, illegal immigrants?
Plus I call Democrats an amnesty party? Get the hell out of this thread!
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: I keep telling you that if you want me to stop responding lying about me is not the way to do it.
quote: Really,no. I’ve been doing it a lot.
quote: You certainly argued that calling the wall racist meant opposing borders.
( The right to NOT be walled off by a border check is another issue. Democrats are on the record calling walls "racist", and we all know walls are just a symbol of borders) Democrats will be in power again, and we will see if "walls are racist" (or "The Wall is racist") will be matched with sincerity in policymaking. Walls are just a symbol of borders. Will Democrats seriously challenge borders?
Message 2770Of course that isn’t true - the motivation for Trump’s wall was clearly racist, for one thing. quote: And you aren’t? You have told far more lies than I have.
quote: Because your constant lying failed to drive me away?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Now? It’s not a new point. You use the general word “immigrants” when you seem to be only talking about illegals. When you said that the Democratic Party was not doing enough to help immigrants you said nothing about legal immigrants - it was all about illegals (Message 34). When you said that the Democrats “threw 1st generation immigrants under the bus” you’ve never explained how that applies to legal immigrants (Message 35)- and the use of “vulnerable to deportation” certainly makes it seem as if you only meant illegals.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Look,clown.
I was saying Democrats would flip flop. I was also attacking the idea of hard borders. The fact that some Democrats call the wall racist hardly says anything about the larger Democratic position. (Democrats attacked the Trump border wall, generally, but Biden wont take down any of it. He just says 'not another foot Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That doesn’t really help you.
quote: As I’ve shown you equated the idea that the wall was racist with the idea that borders are racist. That isn’t necessarily true - the fact that Trump introduced his idea of a wall between the US and Mexico with a racist attack on Mexicans is a good reason for calling that wall racist.
quote: As I recall most of the wall actually built only replaced existing barriers. Why spend money taking it down if a barrier is wanted there?(Wikipedia agrees: The U.S. built new barriers along 455 miles (732 km),[6][7][8] 49 miles (79 km) of which previously had no barrier.[7][8] Much of the remainder consists of 30-foot-tall (9.1 m) steel fencing where previously there had been smaller fencing to deter automobiles. )
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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LamarkNewAge writes: Do you deny that you said that border lands west of the Rio Grande need a wall? Do you deny that you felt that any border land, in Texas, will need either the river or a wall? What I think no one would argue with is that you have a great deal of difficultly correctly interpreting what you read. --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Democrats, including Pelosi, called the wall racist. Not all, or most, Democrats called it racist.
But the vast majority of Democrats attacked the wall. You did not back up your claim that most of Trump's wall simply replaced existing barriers. Democrats flip flopped, but the attack on Trump was just a utilitarian political tactic. Concern for the immigrants was not directly tied to the wall. Defeating Trump was the motive for attacking his wall. The wall will escape being torn down, it seems
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
So where is your effort to back up your claim that I opposed benefits for immigrants?
You took my analysis of public opinion ( with immigrants the decisive supporters, with an otherwise divided public) on a hypothetical & theoretical trade off scenario, and called me racist for a factual report. (The 58 to 41 public support for the hypothetical trade off was largely due to 67% immigrant support. Immigrants are 14% of the population) I was factually pointing out that Democrats never seem to budge above 47% support for increasing immigration levels, despite any hypothetical policy trade off. (And the trade off was a secondary issue, related to a fictional landmark immigration level increase, unlike the issue of support for benefits in a status quo situation) I was pointing out the fundamental political problem with increasing immigration. Your accusation of me is massively wrong, on every level. As for my comment about your support for walls, I will provide the quotes after work. Paulk only covered about 5% of what you said, despite his claims that he provided the context. He missed an entire paragraph in the first linked post, in the Trump Presidency Thread. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That is not in question, is it? The question is what they meant by it. And you have provided no support at all for your claim that they meant that border security was inherently racist.
quote: You mean apart from the Wikipedia quote that indicated that only out of the 455 miles built, all but 49 replaced existing barriers.
quote: If they meant what you said. If on the other hand they had the view that Percy and I attribute to them their opposition simply requires that building efforts halt. As they have done. So it comes down to you to support your claim.
quote: Or objections to Trump’s racist speech, or to the waste of resources on a disruptive vanity project, or to the new barriers which were never built and which will not be built under Biden. Any and all of these are valid and do not require more action (indeed financial prudence would require keeping the sections where barriers are wanted rather than spending more money to tear it down and then build different barriers). And all seem more likely than an inherent objection to barriers at the border.
quote: The parts which were actually built - which do not include the most controversial sections.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
The wall was controversial and much opposed a decade before Trump
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Stenny Hoyar said Pelosi called all walls racist and immoral.
So you are wrong
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