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Author | Topic: CATO Institute had a big IMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY survey, April 27, 2021 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Trump’s wall wasn’t. If you want to talk about some other proposed wall you’ll have to give far more than that. Who objected to it? Why?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Did he? Let’s see the actual quote.
quote: A mere assertion from somebody with a long history of misrepresentation is not proof.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: 90 Democrats supported it CBS News. Including Obama, Hilary Clinton and Chuck Schumer.
quote: All of them? This certainly doesn’t seem as unified as the opposition to Trump’s wall. Nor have we seen any inherent objection to walls.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I’m going to guess that you’ve singled us out as effective critics.
quote: This is a hypocritical lie. Compare the quotes in Message 32 with those offered by LNA in Message 31. The quotes I offer are more complete - and I include additional quotes to better reflect Percy’s position. And unlike LNA I provided links to the posts.
quote: I said that LNA “was also trying to argue that the Democratic Party was calling for full amnesty for all illegal immigrants.”LNA has admitted that there is an amount of truth in that. He asserts - without evidence so far - that the condemnation of Trump’s wall as “racist” was aimed at all border barriers and that the Democratic Party was therefore calling for open borders. I’ll accept correction this far. Note also that I refer only to “calling for” i.e. public rhetoric, not the party’s actual position. The “selective quotes” were my attempts to find quotes relating to LNA’s assertion that Percy had denied that Hilary Clinton was in favour of deportation in the 2014 crisis in the two posts he had referenced. See Message 37. If I had selectively quoted, LNA was free to provide quotes of his own. He did not.
quote: This is a complete invention.
quote: This is a distortion. I asserted that LNA was using the term “immigrants” when he meant only illegal immigrants. As supporting evidence I mentioned the fact that he seemed to class all those affected as “vulnerable to deportation”. Which obviously applies to illegal immigrants but should not apply to legal immigrants (or at least not those fully accepted as immigrants).
quote: Let us correct this gross misrepresentation. When LNA tried to “correct me” - by falsely asserting that I did not think that illegal immigrants were included - I pointed out that I had never said that illegal immigrants were excluded. Seriously LNA’s evidence is that when he lied about me I dared to disagree with him! LNA you may feel this site is a joke because people dare to contradict your misrepresentations - but the problem is with you, not the site.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I note that none of what you say addresses the nature of the objections to the fences.
I also note that the Fence Act was the first part of an intended package of reforms - I grant that Democrats may have voted for it in the hope of getting the future reforms - but vote for it they did. There was never a guarantee of actually getting further reform if the Act passed. This page from the White House Archives is relevant. This is what it says about a “path to citizenship”
The President opposes amnesty but believes there is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant and a program of mass deportation. Illegal immigrants who have roots in our country and want to stay should have to pay a meaningful penalty for breaking the law, pay their taxes, learn English, work in a job for a number of years, and wait in line behind those who played by the rules and followed the law Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: But that is not a lie.
quote: Really? That’s not the way it looks to me. Message 2770( The right to NOT be walled off by a border check is another issue. Democrats are on the record calling walls "racist", and we all know walls are just a symbol of borders) quote: All your assertions that the Democrats would “flip flop” indicates at the least that you thought that what they were saying was good. And it is what they were saying that is at issue - as I pointed out. Now by your own admission you read far enough to see that my “selective” quotations of Percy were fuller than yours. But you don’t address that, let alone support your other accusations against me.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Perhaps you would like to back up that accusation It would make a change.
quote: So you presumably your idea of “selective quoting” is quoting the parts you don’t want people to know about.
quote: Oh so it’s all about how you crush opposition with the Satanic peower of your lies. Funny, I don’t feel crushed. I just feel that you’re a nasty little shit who deserves all the opposition. He gets,
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Where did I deny that you said that?
quote: I have already honestly answered that accusation. And let us note that you have repeatedly lied about me.
quote: So basically you are saying that everybody who opposes you should be banned because otherwise you’ll lie about them and “ruin the conversation”. Charming. Why shouldn’t you be banned when you’re the liar ?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: You also said that it was to get public support for immigration. So presumably the tax would be enacted first and then the increase in immigration levels would follow - if the public support materialised. What if the public support did not materialise?
quote: To put that in context that is much higher than the figure Cato found for Republicans (11%) or Independents (21%).
quote: Increasing anti-immigration rhetoric from the Right may be the cause.Looking at the line graph supplied by Cato for their polls, the figure for Democrats may be only a “blip” - the trend is still upwards (and the decrease on last year’s high is small). This is not so for Republicans who have a small downward trend. Independents have a lower upward trend than Democrats, but the decrease on last year is much more severe. quote: What makes you think that an extra tax on 1st generation immigrants is that idea?
quote: That doesn’t make an extra tax sound like a good idea. The poor are those who can least afford an extra financial burden.
quote: I don’t think your proposed tax would have any effect on support for refugees. It’s shameful but the opponents of refugees won’t think of them as paying taxes anyway.
quote: If their own partisans don’t support the idea - and the uncommitted are even more negative about it - that would seem to be sound politics, especially in these days of electoral uncertainty. It’s no use increasing immigration figures if the Republicans come in and reverse it in a few years time.
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