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Author Topic:   AI - Do humans think algorithmically?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 31 of 40 (888237)
09-10-2021 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by riVeRraT
09-10-2021 8:43 AM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
riVeRraT writes:

Self destruct sequences are not "suicide"...


Of course they are.

riVeRraT writes:

...and are not initiated by depression.


Suicide doesn't have to be initiated by depression. A soldier may jump on a grenade to save his comrades. Somehow, suicide is heroic when the good guys do it but crazy when the Japanese or Muslims do it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2021 8:43 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2021 1:01 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5984
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 32 of 40 (888245)
09-10-2021 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
09-10-2021 12:07 PM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
Somehow, suicide is heroic when the good guys do it but crazy when the Japanese or Muslims do it.

Somehow? It seems pretty clear to me.

The former suicide is intended to save lives while the later is intended to murder.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 09-10-2021 12:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 09-10-2021 1:19 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 33 of 40 (888247)
09-10-2021 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by AZPaul3
09-10-2021 1:01 PM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
AZPaul3 writes:

The former suicide is intended to save lives while the later is intended to murder.


I hope you're being ironic.

The kamikazes were not trying to "murder" any more than the SBD's and TBDs were trying to murder. Both sides were trying to win the war and, in the long run, save lives.

Edited by ringo, : fixed quote


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2021 1:01 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2021 1:43 PM ringo has responded
 Message 38 by xongsmith, posted 09-12-2021 12:35 AM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5984
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 34 of 40 (888248)
09-10-2021 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by ringo
09-10-2021 1:19 PM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
I don’t see the irony.

The soldier that jumps on a grenade does so to save the lives of his crew. The kamikaze and the radical muslim suicide bomber do so to kill the enemy and sew the horror of shock and terror that facing a human bomb elicits in people, or to get 79 virgins or whatever the bounty is this year.

Are the acts really the same in your view?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 09-10-2021 1:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 09-11-2021 11:50 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 627
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 35 of 40 (888253)
09-10-2021 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by riVeRraT
09-10-2021 8:43 AM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
rR writes:

Self destruct sequences are not "suicide" and are not initiated by depression.

Our current understanding of mental processes is still far too primitive to be able to delineate the differences (if such differences even exist) between a conscious act of suicide due to depression and a self destruct action of a computer program. The fact that there are antidepressant drugs, simple molecules with known formula and structure, that may intercede to avoid such suicide might suggest that the neurological programs that lead to depression and suicide could contain “if……then…..” subroutines.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2021 8:43 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 36 of 40 (888297)
09-11-2021 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by AZPaul3
09-10-2021 1:43 PM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
AZPaul3 writes:

The kamikaze and the radical muslim suicide bomber...


The kamikaze was much like the soldier who jumps on a grenade. He wasn't about "sowing the horror of shock and terror that facing a human bomb elicits in people." He wanted to destroy an enemy ship before it destroyed the ships on his side. Typical soldier, slightly different attitude toward death.

AZPaul3 writes:

... radical muslim suicide bomber...


Which is not what I said. It's a typical right-wing knee-jerk reaction to "Muslim", which is what I said.

But my point was that riVeRraT was wrong about suicide. It isn't something that a machine can not do.

Suicide is more complicated than some people think.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2021 1:43 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by AZPaul3, posted 09-11-2021 1:22 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5984
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 37 of 40 (888302)
09-11-2021 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
09-11-2021 11:50 AM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
Which is not what I said. It's a typical right-wing knee-jerk reaction to "Muslim", which is what I said.

It IS what I said. Me. Not you. And I said it because in this world today, when this subject comes up, the muslim suicide bomber is the poster boy of the genre.

To broach the subject in this context has nothing to do with any right-wing crazies. It is a reality of this world.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 09-11-2021 11:50 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 09-12-2021 2:09 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2057
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 38 of 40 (888318)
09-12-2021 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by ringo
09-10-2021 1:19 PM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
Ringo wrote as part of a reply:
the SBD's and TBDs

Sorry - I lost what these acronyms were somewhere down the road.

Suicide Bomb Destroyers
Terrorist Bomb Destroyers

???


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 09-10-2021 1:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 09-12-2021 2:15 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 39 of 40 (888326)
09-12-2021 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by AZPaul3
09-11-2021 1:22 PM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
AZPaul3 writes:

... in this world today, when this subject comes up, the muslim suicide bomber is the poster boy of the genre.


Exactly. But they are NOT the poster boys of suicide in general.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by AZPaul3, posted 09-11-2021 1:22 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 40 of 40 (888327)
09-12-2021 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by xongsmith
09-12-2021 12:35 AM


Re: Suicide is a survival strategy (for species).
xongsmith writes:

ringo writes:

the SBD's and TBDs


Sorry - I lost what these acronyms were somewhere down the road.

Suicide Bomb Destroyers
Terrorist Bomb Destroyers


I just watched Midway the other day.

SBD = dive bomber ("Scout Bomber Douglas")
TBD = torpedo bomber ("Torpedo Bomber Douglas")


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by xongsmith, posted 09-12-2021 12:35 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
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