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Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
Phat
Member
Posts: 15713
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 61 of 171 (888532)
09-20-2021 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by AZPaul3
09-19-2021 4:09 PM


Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
Why thanks, Arizona Paul! I'm wondering if I should stay active today also. I had to work yesterday and didn't get much EvC time to communicate.

Come to think of it I DID find a couple of your comments in other threads worthy of rebuttal. I can't seem to let sleeping dogs lie.

from Message 106

AZPaul3 writes:

It(The Bible) should go in that big green bin out back.


Seeing as how you think that all Gods,gods, and religious mythos solely originate in our collective imaginations gleaned from a dusty old book I can see your point. You are traditionally a vocal anti-theist.
  • PaulK is an atheist who nevertheless entertains the mythos-derived ideologies and debates them in good faith. Honesty is very important to PaulK.
  • Jar insists that he is a believer yet stops at the place where logic, reason, and reality stop. He simply can't understand how the Christian Culture Of Ignorance (CCoI) can be honest with themselves when they clearly make their God up! If true, this observation proves that I am as crazy as a bedbug. I spend as much time talking to God each day as I am typing this reply. Never did that with Santa Claus and even at a young age, fantasy never overrode my basic intuition that Mom and Dad had a lot to do with Santa!

    So let's examine AZPauls idea of "God".

    AZPaul3 writes:

    Your bible wouldn't know women's nature and psychology if it got kicked in its ham-fisted misogynistic patriarchal balls. Same for slave relationships. And there are a lot more disconnects. Your bible's psychological constructs and morals are stone age archaic, brutal, inhumane, and are rejected in modern theory.

    Understood. But if you agree with Tangle that everything possibly known and experienced originate with the written characters in the book you can throw the characters away with the book. I do not believe nor experience the characters in that way.
    From Message 341
    Phat, addressing jar writes:

    But surely God has to do something.

    AZ writes:

    He could die. He could not exist. Either of those would be good.

    Are you talking about Jesus Christ? If you despise Jesus(either as the character in the book or hypothetical actual living character of GOD) in this fashion I can arrange an exorcism to oust that proud little nature spirit of the antichrist.

    AZ writes:

    I can think of others if you need.

    Yes please do. Is there any way you can think of how you would honestly react were Jesus alive?
    You need an argument against a Higher Power in general.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 60 by AZPaul3, posted 09-19-2021 4:09 PM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 62 by ringo, posted 09-20-2021 12:17 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 63 by anglagard, posted 09-20-2021 1:56 PM Phat has responded
     Message 64 by AZPaul3, posted 09-20-2021 3:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19303
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 5.1


    Message 62 of 171 (888538)
    09-20-2021 12:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
    09-20-2021 9:58 AM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    Phat writes:

    You need an argument against a Higher Power in general.


    No more than YOU need an argument against leprechauns in general.

    The way reality works is: You need an argument FOR something you claim is true.


    "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
    -- Lucky Ned Pepper

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 61 by Phat, posted 09-20-2021 9:58 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    anglagard
    Member
    Posts: 2338
    From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
    Joined: 03-18-2006
    Member Rating: 5.1


    Message 63 of 171 (888545)
    09-20-2021 1:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
    09-20-2021 9:58 AM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    Happy birthday Phat! I hope the vacation did you some good.

    The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing.

    If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do.

    Republican = death


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 61 by Phat, posted 09-20-2021 9:58 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-20-2021 3:55 PM anglagard has not yet responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 6086
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 4.8


    (1)
    Message 64 of 171 (888549)
    09-20-2021 3:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
    09-20-2021 9:58 AM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    But if you agree with Tangle that everything possibly known and experienced originate with the written characters in the book you can throw the characters away with the book.

    I'm thinking maybe what Tangle was referring to was that there is only the book. There is no independent confirmation that any of the myths (or characters, outside historical name-dropping) ever existed as presented.

    But this dichotomy of book from character(s) is false. The whole thing is the major propaganda tool of the abrahamics and their evil philosophies, evil morals and evil actions. The presentation of fantasy as reality is bad enough but religion's insistence they be obeyed under penalty of torture and death (in both this life and the fictitious next) is abhorrent to every humanist worthy of the name.

    So throwing the tomb in the trash, characters and all, is an excellent way to keep its poison from infecting more innocent minds.

    If you despise Jesus ...

    The characters mean nothing. They are but actors on stage reading a script written by the priests. The use of these myths, however, is what I despise. Your entire religion, indeed all religions, are formed and operated to accumulate wealth, influence, power for the priests and the brutal warlords they serve.

    Religion has taken the worst of human thought and action and elevated it to the level of a righteous movement. Human life means nothing and is expendable to the greater glory of their god and their church's power over the masses.

    This is despicable.

    Religion needs to end.

    You need an argument against a Higher Power in general.

    An argument against a rainbow-striped unicorn? Really, Phat?


    Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 61 by Phat, posted 09-20-2021 9:58 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 66 by jar, posted 09-20-2021 4:17 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15713
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 65 of 171 (888550)
    09-20-2021 3:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 63 by anglagard
    09-20-2021 1:56 PM


    62 Years Old As of yesterday.
    anglagard writes:

    I hope the vacation did you some good.

    I'm still going to slow down my participation here. It's unhealthy to be addicted to social media rebuttals....just another form of addiction! Ranting insulates me from actually experiencing the feelings and subsequent actions that they can lead to. I'm reading Matthew...slowly and thoroughly...as I ease back on my quantity of posts.

    I hope to improve my quality somewhat. Thanks for the birthday wishes.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 63 by anglagard, posted 09-20-2021 1:56 PM anglagard has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 69 by Percy, posted 09-22-2021 1:05 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33501
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 4.4


    Message 66 of 171 (888552)
    09-20-2021 4:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 64 by AZPaul3
    09-20-2021 3:52 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    AZPaul3 writes:

    I'm thinking maybe what Tangle was referring to was that there is only the book. There is no independent confirmation that any of the myths (or characters, outside historical name-dropping) ever existed as presented.

    But there is not even only the book; there are a whole host of different Canons each creating and authorizing a different "Bible™" with totally different content. The smallest Christian "Bible™" has only 5 books and NONE of the New Testament while the largest has over 80.

    Just as with the God each Chapter of Club Christian and each Jesus of Club Christian markets it is whatever that body of humans has created.

    Edited by jar, : fix quote box


    My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 64 by AZPaul3, posted 09-20-2021 3:52 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 67 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 4:00 PM jar has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15713
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 67 of 171 (888578)
    09-21-2021 4:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 66 by jar
    09-20-2021 4:17 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    Many believers disagree with your logical yet bland and uninspired assessment. Just because jar in Texas has never discovered how it is possible to commune with GOD or whether it has any possible value does not mean that your Socratic logic has any weight on reality for everyone

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by jar, posted 09-20-2021 4:17 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 68 by jar, posted 09-21-2021 4:43 PM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 70 by ringo, posted 09-23-2021 12:14 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33501
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 4.4


    Message 68 of 171 (888581)
    09-21-2021 4:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 67 by Phat
    09-21-2021 4:00 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    As usual you post a meaningless spiel repeating dogma and failing yet again to point out anywhere what I posted is not factual, true and correct.

    While I and others post facts you seem to only reply the you refuse to believe reality.

    And so once again:

    quote:
    But there is not even only the book; there are a whole host of different Canons each creating and authorizing a different "Bible™" with totally different content. The smallest Christian "Bible™" has only 5 books and NONE of the New Testament while the largest has over 80.

    Just as with the God each Chapter of Club Christian and each Jesus of Club Christian markets it is whatever that body of humans has created.


    Care to address reality rather than simply regurgitate the dogma of your chosen cults?


    My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 67 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 4:00 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20422
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 5.0


    Message 69 of 171 (888593)
    09-22-2021 1:05 PM
    Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
    09-20-2021 3:55 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old As of yesterday.
    Phat writes:

    anglagard writes:

    I hope the vacation did you some good.

    I'm still going to slow down my participation here. It's unhealthy to be addicted to social media rebuttals....just another form of addiction! Ranting insulates me from actually experiencing the feelings and subsequent actions that they can lead to.

    Being social, interacting with other human beings, is healthy. Withholding it from yourself is just another poor choice you've made.

    What you (and many others) need to find is a way to free yourself from seeing the world in terms of conspiracy theories and mystical answers.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-20-2021 3:55 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19303
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 5.1


    Message 70 of 171 (888608)
    09-23-2021 12:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 67 by Phat
    09-21-2021 4:00 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    Phat writes:

    Just because jar in Texas has never discovered how it is possible to commune with GOD....


    Well, we have you for an example. If you're communing with God, He must be an idiot.

    "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
    -- Lucky Ned Pepper

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 67 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 4:00 PM Phat has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 71 by jar, posted 09-23-2021 1:04 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33501
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 4.4


    Message 71 of 171 (888609)
    09-23-2021 1:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
    09-23-2021 12:14 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    And neither Phat or anyone else has EVER explained how it might be possible or how to even determine if you are actually communing with God.

    And he NEVER, EVER even tries to answer those questions.


    My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 70 by ringo, posted 09-23-2021 12:14 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-24-2021 8:08 AM jar has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15713
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 72 of 171 (888618)
    09-24-2021 8:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 71 by jar
    09-23-2021 1:04 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    First of all I dont have these questions. Second it is not my job to answer them for you.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by jar, posted 09-23-2021 1:04 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by jar, posted 09-24-2021 10:35 AM Phat has responded
     Message 74 by Percy, posted 09-24-2021 10:51 AM Phat has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33501
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 4.4


    Message 73 of 171 (888622)
    09-24-2021 10:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
    09-24-2021 8:08 AM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    And so yet again all Phat can provide is the fact that he cannot or will not address what others post.

    My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-24-2021 8:08 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 76 by Phat, posted 09-25-2021 3:31 PM jar has responded

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20422
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 5.0


    Message 74 of 171 (888623)
    09-24-2021 10:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
    09-24-2021 8:08 AM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    Phat writes:

    First of all I dont have these questions. Second it is not my job to answer them for you.

    You're not interested in the give and take of discussion? Why are you at a discussion board?

    Is it possible that working in a grocery store is an enabling situation for you?

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-24-2021 8:08 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by Phat, posted 09-25-2021 3:15 PM Percy has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15713
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 75 of 171 (888648)
    09-25-2021 3:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 74 by Percy
    09-24-2021 10:51 AM


    Engaging & Enabling
    Hello Percy. Started the day eating well. Ha a salad. I am not prepared to die anytime soon.

    But I am prepared to engage in reasonable debate. Jar is a one-trick pony. He has one and only one view of what the Bible says and what it means, and he has discredited himself as a believer by saying that none of the characters are real. (But are products of human literature)

    Is it possible that working in a grocery store is an enabling situation for you?
    Not sure I follow. What is it I am enabling?

    Edited by Phat, : sub title


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 74 by Percy, posted 09-24-2021 10:51 AM Percy has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 81 by Percy, posted 09-26-2021 8:57 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
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