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Author | Topic: CATO Institute had a big IMMIGRATION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY survey, April 27, 2021 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined:
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Biden offered his immigration plan on Jan 20,2021.
It only increased the immigration lottery from 55,000 per year up to 80,000. Put this into perspective. The lottery costs the applicants $330 to apply, and it will never be refunded. 23 million people apply per year ( that was the average in 2016, while 2017 saw 22.3 million apply) Are these rich people, who can afford $330 for just a hopeless application? Over 1 million people from each of these countries applied: EgyptEthiopia Iran Nepal Uzbekistan Sierra Leone Ghana Nepal Ukraine In many of these countries, over 10% of the population applies. Liberia's and Sierra Leone see 15% of their people apply. They spend a good chunk of their wealth on VISA applications. The poorest country in Europe is Albania. Over 10% of Albanians shell out the money to apply, each year. 8% of the people of Ghana do. Our immigration system is inhumane and I struggle around here to convey the message.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
No fee to apply. I never heard of the fee until I read something with bad info. Wikipedia just said the fee is a scam. I found the "fee" on page one of google.
There is a fee if you win the lottery. There is also an issue of Joe Biden not providing the resources for the littery winners to be processed in time for the September 30 deadline. Then the winning draw will be worthless, and it is back to the 1 in 200 chance of winning next year. No refund of fee paid, by draw winners, to proceed. The lottery still only awards 55,000 a year, and 13 million applied.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined:
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I just noticed somebody again accused me of saying I was not a racist. (The post I was responding to)
I care very little about what posters on this site say about race. I find this site to be a tiny group of old white men that prefer to style themselves a certain way. I care very little about self proclamations. I mentioned that word "race" about 5 times, and it was an attempt to get the posts (especially 6 and 12 responded to). Truthfully, I think very few racial minority people would consider posters here to be on their side in any way, shape, or form. But that is just a personal opinion of my own. Again: I never said " I am not a racist (in any way shape or form, even remotely)", "Most of my family members are this race", "I have this many minority friends", etc. so spare these endlessly distasteful & extremely dishonest accusations. This site has some very repulsive themes that are directed at whoever happens to step in here. Some treating the ground this site is laid into as if it is a shit pile. Nobody else will want to step in. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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LamarkNewAge writes: This site has some very repulsive themes that are directed at whoever happens to step in here. Some treating the ground this site is laid into as if it is a shit pile. Nobody else will want to step in. If you've found discussion boards where the tenor of discussion is higher and more to your liking then I'm puzzled why you spend any time here at a site you think so little of. And I'm curious what discussion boards you're thinking of. Most on-line discussion today between people of different views quickly descends into insults and anarchy. I recently got this reply at the Washington Post after saying that we should assess Lee's legacy in the context of his time and place:
quote: If comments at the Washington Post can take such a sudden downward turn, it can happen anywhere (and does). About this:
I just noticed somebody again accused me of saying I was not a racist. (The post I was responding to) You continue having difficulty interpreting what you read. I did not mean you used the exact phrase, "I am not a racist." It was meant only as a reference to your many denials of being a racist. The post you're responding does say that you claim not to be a racist, but if your tirade about being called a racist is not a denial of being racist then what is it? Because if it's not that then no one has any idea what you're on about. You should proof your messages at least five times before posting them with an eye toward how much sense they make. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Clarify.Edited by Percy, : Grammar/typo. Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4408 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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You seem disgusted by everything at EvC, so I am baffled why you post so passionately and inarticulately here.
Your only point in this thread seems to be that you hate EvC and everyone connected to it and Democrats are more horrible people than Republicans.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined:
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Show me where I denied being a racist.
Infact, quote every line and post where I even mentioned the word race (or racist). I know for a fact that I was trying to get you to admit that the only quotation you made of me, from my post 6, was a factual description of American public opinion. My reference to you calling me racist (albeit the exact wording was "prejudice") had to do with establishing the factual interpretation of my post 6. (AzPaul called me racist, when I gently clarified my support for whatever benefits first generation immigrants receive. I was challenging him to admit that I was not againstbenefits for immigrants) As for PaulK, I was extremely bothered that he claimed I was calling the Democratic party an "open border" party, but his racist charge was not something that I cared too much about. It was the ridiculous inability to engage with my actual opinion and then to distinguish between the opinion comments, in my posts, and the factual comments, which caused me to reference the racial accusations. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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It is difficult to engage with your actual opinion, because you are so unclear about what is your actual opinion.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Your position is very unclear. Are you still using the results of a poll to justify advocacy of making benefits for immigrants conditional upon they're paying additional taxes for them?
--Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Although I am inactive at EvC Forum, by and large, I had to activate myself long enough to reply to this topic...as Phat...since my previous attempt at toning down the rhetoric and personal attacks was premature. (As AdminPhat) This topic is LNA's topic anyway and is not a topic I normally would be interested in except that as I moderated the topic and found myself growing more curious as to how and why LNA thought and felt, I realized that I could not moderate the topic until I understood LNA a bit better.
So here I go: First, lets examine the source of the topic.
E Pluribus Unum: Findings from the Cato Institute 2021 Immigration and Identity National Survey The survey of 2,600 U.S. adults seeks to explore and examine why Americans support or oppose a more open immigration regime. We can all read the link and likely arrive at differing conclusions as to its relevance to us personally. Which brings up another question! AZPaul3 addressing LamarkNewAge writes: So I ask the question. Who is us?
What are you trying to say to us. The lyrics are great! quote:I bring this up as I am trying to understand where LNA is coming from. Before I address that, however, I want to read through and quote the Link quote:I will readily admit that in some ways I myself am racist. Or at least highly prejudiced. And I note where Lamark comments on "us" at EvC Forum. By the way, LNA...I consider *you* as one of us. AZ Paul3 helped me to do that. AZ writes: Thus when AZ asks LNA what He is trying to say to *us* he is reminding LNA that he too is one of us. Comments, Lamark?
LNA's actions are no more than what the rest of this chorus does to each other on a weekly basis. Not anything you and I haven't slung at others, and at each other, at some time. No other great arguments on my part.LNA writes: As a moderate to conservative spoiled old white guy who is scared to death that his wealth will decrease as a middle class American and that the rest of the world seeks the opportunity to get wealthier, I understand that what I fear needs to be better understood by myself if I am to get any closer to what God wants of me or what my fellow humans expect from me. I have no idea of the color of anyone's skin here at EvC though I do note that LNA describes EvC as a bunch of old white guys! Perhaps we are...I know that I am, and I know that a minority immigrant seeking to feel welcome here may feel anxious and a bit threatened by the white privilege that many Americans carry.
I care very little about what posters on this site say about race. I find this site to be a tiny group of old white men that prefer to style themselves a certain way. (...) Truthfully, I think very few racial minority people would consider posters here to be on their side in any way, shape, or form. But that is just a personal opinion of my own. LNA writes: Though I was at first critical of this context, I did not fully understand what you are stating, LNA. Nobody else....is that externalization of the perspective of a 1st generation immigrant who is afraid of racism in America in general?
This site has some very repulsive themes that are directed at whoever happens to step in here. Some treating the ground this site is laid into as if it is a shit pile. Nobody else will want to step in.LNA writes: And I was too quick to suspend you. You have a high degree of emotion invested in the topic of immigration. I am curious as to why you feel this way. Our immigration system is inhumane and I struggle around here to convey the message. But let's go back to the link, shall we?
The survey seeks to quantify these different beliefs and then moves deeper to understand what drives support or opposition to immigration. Given the many benefits of immigration, careful attention is paid to understanding opposition to increasing immigration and the desire to decrease it. For simplicity, this report often refers to those who want to decrease immigration as “immigration Restrictionists,” those who want to increase immigration as “immigration Expanders” and those who want to maintain current levels as “immigration Maintainers.” Im in favor of controlled immigration for admittedly largely selfish reasons. Someone needs to pay into social security so that I can safely retire. Why not have more immigration? Or at least enough to maintain the pool of workers needed to pay into social security.
quote: I think I would classify myself as a maintainer. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
I dont think I ever said anything about current immigrants, under our current system, paying a tax for whatever benefits they get.
So I feel your "still" remark is another dishonest tactic. On the note about your general tactics, I must ask the following: I was wondering if you would ever admit that my 2014 Huffington Post article link counted as evidence that I had a 2014 source showing Hillary Clinton said children will be deported? You claimed that I only had a late 2016 source. Our March, 2019, exchange started when you denied that I told the truth when I stated that Hillary Clinton claimed, to Jorge Ramos,she would not deport children. (I was extremely skeptical that she was going to keep her promise, and I doubted that the Democratic party, at large, would protect children to anywhere near that extent) You kept saying that she was just talking about "due process". But Ramos kept pressing about the issue of protecting children from deportation, ultimately; He specifically asked her about the protection beyond her weasly "due process" hiding place. I quoted you the text, while you asked me for video of the exchange. Miriam Valverde, January 2, 2019, of Politifact had an article, "Did Hillary Clinton in 2014 say migrant children should be sent back to their countries?" It was just 1 month before our exchange. You kept using strawman twisting tactics when I raised the issue of Democrats detaining and deporting children migrants caught at the border. You happily "responded" to points you knew I was not making. I factually pointed out that Trump differed from the Obama/Clinton policy only in separation of children from parents, but not in the detention & deportation aspect. Your strawman responses came, full of your dishonest evasions and claims. (And you never want to address the real cause of the illegal immigration you like to oppose: the near impossibility of prospective immigrants having any real chance to immigrate here, due to the outdated & inhumane LEGAL immigration system - the very issue I constantly raise, and the very reason you viciously & dishonestly attack me) Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Why are you rehashing discussions from another thread from a couple years ago? If you've got unfinished business in some other thread then take it to that thread.
LamarkNewAge writes: I dont think I ever said anything about current immigrants, under our current system, paying a tax for whatever benefits they get. I didn't say whether you were talking about current or future immigrants. You were talking about future immigrants. This is from your Message 6:
I have been begging for the Democrats and the pro immigration side to get around the immigration-stopper "public charge" issue by having an immigration tax (5% specifically) to be applied on all future immigrants. Do you still feel that way? --Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.Edited by Percy, : Fix wording.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
You only want a wall to solve this (to you) terrible problem if there is no river with technology.
I suppose you support Biden in his demand that Mexico places a rock-solid hard border between it and Guatemala. Again, you said this recently. (I admit that you have been consistently obsessed with making it almost impossible for immigrants to get across the southern border, so they can enjoy your "due process" platitude - itself a severe watering down of the 2016 Democratic candidate's opposition to deportation of children) All of this was your position in this very thread. It was your updated position against immigrant's efforts to come here and to stay. It is a problem to you that "needs" a solution. Get tough is your solution. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
You posted a general reply, and you didn't quote anyone, so it's not possible to be certain who you're replying to. I'll respond as if your message was to me.
LamarkNewAge writes: You only want a wall to solve this (to you) terrible problem if there is no river with technology. This would be incorrect. Repeating what I said earlier, I prefer technology solutions with walls only where necessary. Border patrol personnel will be part of any solution.
I suppose you support Biden in his demand that Mexico places a rock-solid hard border between it and Guatemala. I have seen no news about this, a Google News search came up dry, but I would be in favor of the same border solutions in Guatamala as here in the US. I favor technology solutions and natural barriers like rivers and other geological features combined with border personnel.
Again, you said this recently. Who said what recently? You quoted nothing, and it's not even possible to be certain who you're replying to?
(I admit that you have been consistently obsessed with making it almost impossible for immigrants to get across the southern border, so they can enjoy your "due process" platitude - itself a severe watering down of the 2016 Democratic candidate's opposition to deportation of children) Doesn't sound like me.
All of this was your position in this very thread. It was your updated position against immigrant's efforts to come here and to stay. It is a problem to you that "needs" a solution. Get tough is your solution. This doesn't sound like me, either. I want increased legal immigration. I want it to be easy instead of taking years. I want people to be able to walk up to our border stations and apply for immigration status with available room and board while their application is considered, and with social workers helping them plan for both possible futures, acceptance and rejection. Asylum applications should not have a 74% denial rate. Do you still want to levy additional taxes on immigrants for their benefits beyond the taxes they would already pay? --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
About 1 million deportations, under Title 42, took place in the last year. These deportations deny asylum seekers, who made it to the USA, a hearing, prior to removal from the country.
The decision to stop the Title 42 deportations was September 16. Biden appealed the ruling.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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We should oppose all excuses for non-humanitarian behavior, including Title 42. People who appear on our southern border are desperate and should be treated with dignity and compassion. I sent a message to the White House saying that what he's doing is not what I signed up for when I voted for him.
Border patrol agents jobs are very difficult. It must be challenging to look like you're treating someone with dignity and compassion while you're chasing them down, but when someone runs away and attempts to evade being taken into custody there's no way to avoid the bad optics. That being said, we should cease chasing people down on horseback because of the dangers presented by a rapidly moving 1000 pound animal. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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