Re: The inhumanity of our immigration system (which Biden maintains so far)
No fee to apply. I never heard of the fee until I read something with bad info. Wikipedia just said the fee is a scam. I found the "fee" on page one of google.
There is a fee if you win the lottery.
There is also an issue of Joe Biden not providing the resources for the littery winners to be processed in time for the September 30 deadline. Then the winning draw will be worthless, and it is back to the 1 in 200 chance of winning next year. No refund of fee paid, by draw winners, to proceed.
The lottery still only awards 55,000 a year, and 13 million applied.
Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
I just noticed somebody again accused me of saying I was not a racist. (The post I was responding to)
I care very little about what posters on this site say about race. I find this site to be a tiny group of old white men that prefer to style themselves a certain way. I care very little about self proclamations. I mentioned that word "race" about 5 times, and it was an attempt to get the posts (especially 6 and 12 responded to).
Truthfully, I think very few racial minority people would consider posters here to be on their side in any way, shape, or form. But that is just a personal opinion of my own.
Again: I never said " I am not a racist (in any way shape or form, even remotely)", "Most of my family members are this race", "I have this many minority friends", etc. so spare these endlessly distasteful & extremely dishonest accusations.
This site has some very repulsive themes that are directed at whoever happens to step in here.
Some treating the ground this site is laid into as if it is a shit pile. Nobody else will want to step in.
Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
LamarkNewAge writes:
This site has some very repulsive themes that are directed at whoever happens to step in here.
Some treating the ground this site is laid into as if it is a shit pile. Nobody else will want to step in.
If you've found discussion boards where the tenor of discussion is higher and more to your liking then I'm puzzled why you spend any time here at a site you think so little of. And I'm curious what discussion boards you're thinking of. Most on-line discussion today between people of different views quickly descends into insults and anarchy. I recently got this reply at the Washington Post after saying that we should assess Lee's legacy in the context of his time and place:
quote:We can't fix you. You are stupid and you're racist. A simple point for you Martin Luther King didn't take arms against United States of America! Martin Luther King did not own slaves. And Martin Luther King did not separate families or rape women! I suppose your relatives were Southern but any real man would divorce the lies and hate of their ancestors!
If comments at the Washington Post can take such a sudden downward turn, it can happen anywhere (and does).
About this:
I just noticed somebody again accused me of saying I was not a racist. (The post I was responding to)
You continue having difficulty interpreting what you read. I did not mean you used the exact phrase, "I am not a racist." It was meant only as a reference to your many denials of being a racist.
The post you're responding does say that you claim not to be a racist, but if your tirade about being called a racist is not a denial of being racist then what is it? Because if it's not that then no one has any idea what you're on about.
You should proof your messages at least five times before posting them with an eye toward how much sense they make.
Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
You seem disgusted by everything at EvC, so I am baffled why you post so passionately and inarticulately here.
Your only point in this thread seems to be that you hate EvC and everyone connected to it and Democrats are more horrible people than Republicans.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
Show me where I denied being a racist.
Infact, quote every line and post where I even mentioned the word race (or racist).
I know for a fact that I was trying to get you to admit that the only quotation you made of me, from my post 6, was a factual description of American public opinion.
My reference to you calling me racist (albeit the exact wording was "prejudice") had to do with establishing the factual interpretation of my post 6.
(AzPaul called me racist, when I gently clarified my support for whatever benefits first generation immigrants receive. I was challenging him to admit that I was not againstbenefits for immigrants)
As for PaulK, I was extremely bothered that he claimed I was calling the Democratic party an "open border" party, but his racist charge was not something that I cared too much about.
It was the ridiculous inability to engage with my actual opinion and then to distinguish between the opinion comments, in my posts, and the factual comments, which caused me to reference the racial accusations.
Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
Your position is very unclear. Are you still using the results of a poll to justify advocacy of making benefits for immigrants conditional upon they're paying additional taxes for them?
Re: The inhumanity of our immigration system (which Biden maintains so far)
Although I am inactive at EvC Forum, by and large, I had to activate myself long enough to reply to this topic...as Phat...since my previous attempt at toning down the rhetoric and personal attacks was premature. (As AdminPhat) This topic is LNA's topic anyway and is not a topic I normally would be interested in except that as I moderated the topic and found myself growing more curious as to how and why LNA thought and felt, I realized that I could not moderate the topic until I understood LNA a bit better.
So here I go:
First, lets examine the source of the topic.
E Pluribus Unum: Findings from the Cato Institute 2021 Immigration and Identity National Survey The survey of 2,600 U.S. adults seeks to explore and examine why Americans support or oppose a more open immigration regime. We can all read the link and likely arrive at differing conclusions as to its relevance to us personally. Which brings up another question!
AZPaul3 addressing LamarkNewAge writes:
What are you trying to say to us.
So I ask the question. Who is us?
The lyrics are great!
quote:Us And Them "Us And Them" Us and them And after all, we're only ordinary men Me and you God only knows it's not what we would choose to do
"Forward!" he cried From the rear And the front rank died And the general sat And the lines on the map Moved from side to side Black and blue And who knows which is which and who is who? Up and down And in the end, it's only round and round and round
"Haven't you heard It's a battle of words?" The poster bearer cried. "Listen, son," Said the man with the gun, "There's room for you inside."
"Well, I mean, they're gonna kill ya, so like, if you give 'em a quick sh...short, sharp shock, they don't do it again. Dig it? I mean he got off light, 'cause I could've given him a thrashin' but I only hit him once. It's only the difference between right and wrong, innit? I mean good manners don't cost nothing, do they? Eh?"
Down and out It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about
With, without And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way It's a busy day I've got things on my mind For want of the price Of tea and a slice The old man died
I bring this up as I am trying to understand where LNA is coming from. Before I address that, however, I want to read through and quote the Link
quote:The Cato Institute 2021 Immigration and Identity National Survey of 2,600 U.S. adults seeks to explore and examine why Americans support or oppose a more open immigration regime. Americans have complex views on the subject—views they often are unsure how to express. Most Americans have very positive views of immigration and few have outright wholly negative views. However, many Americans remain conflicted, perceiving immigration to present both immense benefits but also challenges.
I will readily admit that in some ways I myself am racist. Or at least highly prejudiced. And I note where Lamark comments on "us" at EvC Forum. By the way, LNA...I consider *you* as one of us. AZ Paul3 helped me to do that.
AZ writes:
LNA's actions are no more than what the rest of this chorus does to each other on a weekly basis. Not anything you and I haven't slung at others, and at each other, at some time. No other great arguments on my part.
Thus when AZ asks LNA what He is trying to say to *us* he is reminding LNA that he too is one of us. Comments, Lamark?
LNA writes:
I care very little about what posters on this site say about race. I find this site to be a tiny group of old white men that prefer to style themselves a certain way. (...) Truthfully, I think very few racial minority people would consider posters here to be on their side in any way, shape, or form. But that is just a personal opinion of my own.
As a moderate to conservative spoiled old white guy who is scared to death that his wealth will decrease as a middle class American and that the rest of the world seeks the opportunity to get wealthier, I understand that what I fear needs to be better understood by myself if I am to get any closer to what God wants of me or what my fellow humans expect from me. I have no idea of the color of anyone's skin here at EvC though I do note that LNA describes EvC as a bunch of old white guys! Perhaps we are...I know that I am, and I know that a minority immigrant seeking to feel welcome here may feel anxious and a bit threatened by the white privilege that many Americans carry.
LNA writes:
This site has some very repulsive themes that are directed at whoever happens to step in here.
Some treating the ground this site is laid into as if it is a shit pile. Nobody else will want to step in.
Though I was at first critical of this context, I did not fully understand what you are stating, LNA. Nobody else....is that externalization of the perspective of a 1st generation immigrant who is afraid of racism in America in general?
LNA writes:
Our immigration system is inhumane and I struggle around here to convey the message.
And I was too quick to suspend you. You have a high degree of emotion invested in the topic of immigration. I am curious as to why you feel this way.
But let's go back to the link, shall we?
The survey seeks to quantify these different beliefs and then moves deeper to understand what drives support or opposition to immigration. Given the many benefits of immigration, careful attention is paid to understanding opposition to increasing immigration and the desire to decrease it. For simplicity, this report often refers to those who want to decrease immigration as “immigration Restrictionists,” those who want to increase immigration as “immigration Expanders” and those who want to maintain current levels as “immigration Maintainers.”
Im in favor of controlled immigration for admittedly largely selfish reasons. Someone needs to pay into social security so that I can safely retire.
Why not have more immigration? Or at least enough to maintain the pool of workers needed to pay into social security.
quote:Restrictionists: Immigration Restrictionists are more likely than immigration Expanders to be White American (77% vs. 61%) and somewhat less likely to be African American (9% vs. 12%), Latino (8% vs. 17%), or Asian American (3% vs. 7%). They tend to be older (with 55% vs. 35% over the age of 55) and are less likely to have college degrees (22% vs. 36%). They have moderate incomes and are about half as likely as Expanders to earn more than $100,000 annually (12% vs. 20%). They are more likely than Expanders to live in less populated areas (42% vs. 21% live in a small town or rural area). They are somewhat more likely to live in the Midwest (23% vs. 19%) and South (38% vs. 33%). Restrictionists also are more likely to identify as conservative (62% vs. 14%) as well as independent (33% vs. 21%) and Republican (44% vs. 12%).
Expanders: Immigration Expanders are mostly White American (61%) but are more likely to be African American (12% vs. 9%), Latino (17% vs. 8%), and Asian American (7% vs. 3%) than Restrictionists are. Expanders are more likely than Restrictionists to have a college degree (36% vs. 22%) including post-graduate degrees (17% vs. 8%) and higher incomes (20% vs. 12% earn more than $100,000 annually). Expanders also tend to be younger (56% vs. 45% are under 45). They generally live in more densely populated areas (50% vs. 25% live in a city) They are somewhat more likely to live in the Northeast (20% vs. 17%) and West (28% vs. 22%). Expanders are more likely to identify as liberal (49% vs. 7%) and as Democrats (60% vs. 13%).
Maintainers: Those who want to maintain immigration levels are similar in some ways to Expanders and in other ways to Restrictionists. Like Expanders, Maintainers are more racially diverse (61% White, 13% Black, 19% Latino, and 6% Asian American) than Restrictionists. But like Restrictionists, Maintainers are less likely than Expanders to have college degrees (24%). A plurality of Maintainers identifies as politically moderate (39%) and Democratic (39%). The remainder is split between identifying as conservative (32%) and liberal (22%).
I think I would classify myself as a maintainer.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” - Criss Jami, Killo
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Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
I dont think I ever said anything about current immigrants, under our current system, paying a tax for whatever benefits they get.
So I feel your "still" remark is another dishonest tactic.
On the note about your general tactics, I must ask the following:
I was wondering if you would ever admit that my 2014 Huffington Post article link counted as evidence that I had a 2014 source showing Hillary Clinton said children will be deported? You claimed that I only had a late 2016 source.
Our March, 2019, exchange started when you denied that I told the truth when I stated that Hillary Clinton claimed, to Jorge Ramos,she would not deport children. (I was extremely skeptical that she was going to keep her promise, and I doubted that the Democratic party, at large, would protect children to anywhere near that extent)
You kept saying that she was just talking about "due process".
But Ramos kept pressing about the issue of protecting children from deportation, ultimately; He specifically asked her about the protection beyond her weasly "due process" hiding place. I quoted you the text, while you asked me for video of the exchange.
Miriam Valverde, January 2, 2019, of Politifact had an article, "Did Hillary Clinton in 2014 say migrant children should be sent back to their countries?"
It was just 1 month before our exchange.
You kept using strawman twisting tactics when I raised the issue of Democrats detaining and deporting children migrants caught at the border. You happily "responded" to points you knew I was not making. I factually pointed out that Trump differed from the Obama/Clinton policy only in separation of children from parents, but not in the detention & deportation aspect. Your strawman responses came, full of your dishonest evasions and claims.
(And you never want to address the real cause of the illegal immigration you like to oppose: the near impossibility of prospective immigrants having any real chance to immigrate here, due to the outdated & inhumane LEGAL immigration system - the very issue I constantly raise, and the very reason you viciously & dishonestly attack me)
Re: I was planning on making a comment about equating immigration policy with race policy
Why are you rehashing discussions from another thread from a couple years ago? If you've got unfinished business in some other thread then take it to that thread.
LamarkNewAge writes:
I dont think I ever said anything about current immigrants, under our current system, paying a tax for whatever benefits they get.
I didn't say whether you were talking about current or future immigrants. You were talking about future immigrants. This is from your Message 6:
I have been begging for the Democrats and the pro immigration side to get around the immigration-stopper "public charge" issue by having an immigration tax (5% specifically) to be applied on all future immigrants.
But you said we "need" technology to stop those (to you) bad immigrants. In THIS thre
You only want a wall to solve this (to you) terrible problem if there is no river with technology.
I suppose you support Biden in his demand that Mexico places a rock-solid hard border between it and Guatemala.
Again, you said this recently.
(I admit that you have been consistently obsessed with making it almost impossible for immigrants to get across the southern border, so they can enjoy your "due process" platitude - itself a severe watering down of the 2016 Democratic candidate's opposition to deportation of children)
All of this was your position in this very thread. It was your updated position against immigrant's efforts to come here and to stay. It is a problem to you that "needs" a solution. Get tough is your solution.
Re: But you said we "need" technology to stop those (to you) bad immigrants. In THIS thre
You posted a general reply, and you didn't quote anyone, so it's not possible to be certain who you're replying to. I'll respond as if your message was to me.
LamarkNewAge writes:
You only want a wall to solve this (to you) terrible problem if there is no river with technology.
This would be incorrect. Repeating what I said earlier, I prefer technology solutions with walls only where necessary. Border patrol personnel will be part of any solution.
I suppose you support Biden in his demand that Mexico places a rock-solid hard border between it and Guatemala.
I have seen no news about this, a Google News search came up dry, but I would be in favor of the same border solutions in Guatamala as here in the US. I favor technology solutions and natural barriers like rivers and other geological features combined with border personnel.
Again, you said this recently.
Who said what recently? You quoted nothing, and it's not even possible to be certain who you're replying to?
(I admit that you have been consistently obsessed with making it almost impossible for immigrants to get across the southern border, so they can enjoy your "due process" platitude - itself a severe watering down of the 2016 Democratic candidate's opposition to deportation of children)
Doesn't sound like me.
All of this was your position in this very thread. It was your updated position against immigrant's efforts to come here and to stay. It is a problem to you that "needs" a solution. Get tough is your solution.
This doesn't sound like me, either. I want increased legal immigration. I want it to be easy instead of taking years. I want people to be able to walk up to our border stations and apply for immigration status with available room and board while their application is considered, and with social workers helping them plan for both possible futures, acceptance and rejection. Asylum applications should not have a 74% denial rate.
Do you still want to levy additional taxes on immigrants for their benefits beyond the taxes they would already pay?
Federal Judge Emmitt Sullivan orders cease to Bidens "unlawful" Title 42 deportations
About 1 million deportations, under Title 42, took place in the last year. These deportations deny asylum seekers, who made it to the USA, a hearing, prior to removal from the country.
The decision to stop the Title 42 deportations was September 16.
Re: Federal Judge Emmitt Sullivan orders cease to Bidens "unlawful" Title 42 deportations
We should oppose all excuses for non-humanitarian behavior, including Title 42. People who appear on our southern border are desperate and should be treated with dignity and compassion. I sent a message to the White House saying that what he's doing is not what I signed up for when I voted for him.
Border patrol agents jobs are very difficult. It must be challenging to look like you're treating someone with dignity and compassion while you're chasing them down, but when someone runs away and attempts to evade being taken into custody there's no way to avoid the bad optics. That being said, we should cease chasing people down on horseback because of the dangers presented by a rapidly moving 1000 pound animal.
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