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Author | Topic: Phat Unplugged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22947 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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Phat writes: I don't understand some of the concepts enough to know the words. That should be a warning sign for you right there.
I knew that Gold no longer backed the dollar. It's been nearly a hundred years since the US was on the gold standard. It's been a good long time since any meaningful currency has been backed by gold. You've been told, more than once, that there isn't enough gold in the world to back the world's currencies, that the world population grows faster than the gold supply. If the world's currencies were backed by gold there would be less and less money to go around and the world would become more and more poor. When the world population was only a billion or two and there was much less wealth it was possible to back currencies with gold. That is no longer possible and hasn't been for quite some time. Your talk of a gold standard is just rubbish.
What worries me about inflation and the actions of the Fed are that real wage values will decrease even as workers increase (assuming the opportunity for production) and your prediction that we will all make fine gardeners and servants of a rising global middle class looks likely. Why, since you "don't understand some of the concepts," are you asserting anything? Why do you think you know enough to reach any conclusions? Why are you listening to scaremongers? Instead of pausing your participation here you should have stopped listening to YouTube videos. Look, we get it, what they say tickles a part of your brain that feels good, but it's all nonsense. These guys are on YouTube not because they know anything but because they have a knack for making appealing YouTube videos. You would be much better served trying to figure things out, connect the dots, learn how things really work. Master some of those concepts that seem so nebulous to you right now. And stop issuing silly warnings. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18647 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
What might be a method that faith and confidence might be measured?
Honesty, for one thing. Being a nation that keeps its word and its promises. You and I have discussed how poorly we have done in this area for many years. In fact, judging from some news reports, we did it again to the Afghani people who helped us."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Two people go into a back to get a loan.
One get the loan and one does not. With which of the two does the bank have the greater confidence?My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 18647 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
jar, spelling corrected writes: Two people go into a bank to get a loan. One gets the loan and one does not. Of which of the two does the bank have the greater confidence? Using my intuition, I would say that the bank has greater confidence towards the one whom they deny."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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I give up!
My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 18647 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
was I wrong then? They know why *not* to approve a loan. They have no idea if the loan will be repaid but can only judge based on ability to repay.
Let's extrapolate that to the United States. Do we really want China to buy up all of our farmland? We DO still have a military that could theoretically nationalize all foreign holdings if our creditors (the bank) get a bit too carried away. China is not our idea of a global leader. They cannot simply mimic what the US has done in the past hundred years. We could get away with owning foreign investments since we were a democracy.(or to some a republic) They are a totalitarian communist regime with a horrible history of controlling people....something we have never done. You say the bill will get paid, but it matters a lot to whom the money is owed. I for one am in favor of default or bankruptcy if the creditors are predatory or unworthy."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18647 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
OK lets try this again.
jar, spelling corrected writes: Two people go into a bank to get a loan. One gets the loan and one does not. Of which of the two does the bank have the greater confidence? The one who gets the loan. Where is this analogy heading? Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Percy Member Posts: 22947 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Phat writes: Using my intuition, I would say that the bank has greater confidence towards the one whom they deny. Seriously? Unless this is a joke or a sarcastic response to how obvious jar's question was, you need serious help. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18647 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Of course, it was sarcastic. Sometimes you guys insult me by imagining yourselves far smarter than I. I may correct you on that 300 billion servicing figure. It is now twice that, based on 9%. The latest figure was 2020 and it was over 500 billion.
The current debt is just under 29 trillion dollars. This does not include unfunded liabilities such as future promises *cough* Social Security *cough* which are estimated to be over one hundred trillion dollars. The deficit is the yearly amount added to the debt, and this figure alone approaches 4 trillion dollars as of late. And the problem with the dollar being backed by production is that the US is not an efficient producer anymore. We have a financial system driven upwards as of late only through artificially infused stimulus. I know that it is simplistic to compare globalism (all of the people) to nationalism (US people) but the dollar is a US currency as well as a global reserve currency.(currently the main one) If we keep borrowing and do not produce, the rest of the world will tire of our status quickly. Jar always argues that the proverbial bill will get paid, but I wonder if any of you know or care that the human productive backing of goods and services will not help us if the dollar becomes global....nor will it help us if any other currency takes its place. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I hope that I am not coming across as too delusional. Believe it or not, I'm no dummy. Ask those who know me well.(Though I *do* get insecure around here at times. ) "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Phat writes:
You need to stop making these kind of comments, no-one else seems to feel the need to. It's likely to have the reverse effect than what you were hoping for. Believe it or not, I'm no dummy. Ask those who know me well. For what it's worth, I doubt anyone thinks you stupid, but you are very, very poor at thinking rationally. It is a skill and it quite often has to be learned; it's not particularly intuitive. In fact it's the opposite. Your dependence on beliefs and "gut feelings" to argue here just gives it away. Mike the Wizz is a perfect example of someone who is probably very intelligent but totally misapplies it; really twists his intelligence out of shape. Faith was also pretty smart but simply could not be impartial. To be useful, intelligence has to be applied rationally otherwise it becomes quite dangerous.
quote: That should be telling you that maybe you're missing something about thinking.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17918 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
quote: I don’t know how you get “based on 9%”. The 2021 figure is over $520 billion dollars but that’s about 2% of the debt. I don’t know where you got the 300 billion figure you’re objecting to either (I can’t see it in this thread).
quote: COVID has affected everyone, so I think you need to exclude stimulus to counter that.
quote: This doesn’t make sense. What does it mean for the dollar to “become global”? Why would it affect the backing from the US economy?
quote: I don’t see why that would be true, either. The backing would remain. Demand for dollars might fall, and with it the international value, but there’s a negative feedback there. US production would become cheaper on an international scale.
quote: What you are saying doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.
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Percy Member Posts: 22947 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Phat writes: Of course, it was sarcastic. That's not what sarcasm looks like.
Sometimes you guys insult me by imagining yourselves far smarter than I. Stop saying things that aren't true. No one said they're smarter than you. Your posts exhibit a high frequency of demonstrated error, ignorance and naiveté. People have been commenting on this in an increasingly derogatory manner because you've become more and more persistent and determined to keep at it while ignoring the often informed feedback being provided.
I may correct you on that 300 billion servicing figure. Sure go ahead. This is from How High Are Federal Interest Payments? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget:
quote: Here's a higher figure from Interest on the National Debt and How It Affects You:
quote: That figure can be found in their referenced document Budget of the U.S. Government in the table on page 112 under the 2021 column for the "Net interest" line. I don't know why the difference from the other figure, but one possibility is that how much interest we incur and how much we actually pay in any given year are not the same thing. But our interest payments will be growing over the coming years, soon passing the figure you cite, though you don't say where you got it. According to the aforementioned table, we won't surpass $500 billion for five more years.
It is now twice that, based on 9%. 9% of what? Federal revenue? The budget? 9% of federal revenue for fiscal 2021 is $348 billion.
The latest figure was 2020 and it was over 500 billion. Uh, no. Why do you think this? What crazy YouTube guy are you listening to now?
And the problem with the dollar being backed by production is that the US is not an efficient producer anymore. Not counting the pandemic, US productivity has been on a general upward trend for decades.
We have a financial system driven upwards as of late only through artificially infused stimulus. Most countries throughout the world engage in deficit spending because of its stimulus effects. The analogy is home buying. If everyone waited to buy a home until they had saved a few hundred thousand dollars very few homes would be purchased. Use of mortgages (deficit spending at the personal level) enables everyone to live a better life.
I know that it is simplistic to compare globalism (all of the people) to nationalism (US people) but the dollar is a US currency as well as a global reserve currency.(currently the main one) If we keep borrowing and do not produce, the rest of the world will tire of our status quickly. This is nonsense. We are not losing our ability to produce, just look at our GDP. Who is filling your head with this nonsense? Why do you constantly think it sufficient to throw cockamamie ideas out into the discussion without justification? Did you ever stop to think, "Is the US actually losing its ability to produce? I should go look up recent GDP trends."
Jar always argues that the proverbial bill will get paid, but I wonder if any of you know or care that the human productive backing of goods and services will not help us if the dollar becomes global....nor will it help us if any other currency takes its place. This is word salad.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Do even *you* understand what you're trying to say? You're trying to convince us of ideas you've picked up from people who don't know what they're talking about. Whenever your information is faulty or doesn't make sense we tell you, but you just ignore us, wait a day or two, then say it all over again.
I hope that I am not coming across as too delusional. You are both gullible and delusional.
Believe it or not, I'm no dummy. When circumstances reach the point where you have to tell people , "I'm no dummy," guess what? --Percy Edited by Percy, : Add link to US Budget.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17918 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
There seems to be some confusion over figures. The Treasury reports a figure of $524,706,646,051.90 in interest payments for FY 2021
Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding (treasurydirect.gov) That’s a little higher than the 2020 figure, but noticeably lower than 2019. Edited by Admin, : Fix link.
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Percy Member Posts: 22947 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
The relevant line of the table on page 112 of the Budget of the U.S. Government is labeled "Net interest," implying that we're both paying and receiving interest. I couldn't find any clarifying information in the document.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22947 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Found the explanation at Federal Net Interest Costs: A Primer | Congressional Budget Office:
quote: --Percy
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