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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musing
AZPaul3
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Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 52 of 159 (887826)
08-22-2021 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by LamarkNewAge
08-22-2021 7:26 PM


Re: 19 June 2018 Physics World covers the scientists who point out the averaging problem.
There are scientists who feel that the expansion rate is inaccurately measured due to using averages that are taken from looking at the expansion in vast voids.

Since we have two accurate (better than 5σ) measures of H0 and they differ and their error bars do not overlap, that right there tells you something is not quite kosher.

There are scientists that have questions about each measurement technique. And some question whether dark energy exists at all.

Until more information is available the consensus from the evidence we do have is that all of space is expanding everywhere at about 70 km/s/Mpc.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-22-2021 7:26 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 64 of 159 (887848)
08-23-2021 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by LamarkNewAge
08-22-2021 9:13 PM


Re: Dark Energy does not add any extra "space" to Space in a galaxy.
It is unnecessary to show a complete uninterrupted chain of fossils with none missing in order to establish a relationship between species. And it is unnecessary to have a chart of expansion readings from Boston to Andromeda to establish the universal properties of dark energy. This is especially so when there is no reason, no evidence, to suppose otherwise.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-22-2021 9:13 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-23-2021 10:45 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 69 of 159 (887853)
08-23-2021 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by LamarkNewAge
08-23-2021 10:45 AM


Re: Dark Energy does not add any extra "space" to Space in a galaxy.
Your objections are noted. They will not have much effect on the major cosmological community, however.

As for your words ... consider them twisted by reality into the universality of dark energy's properties across all of space, even the space between your ears.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-23-2021 10:45 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-23-2021 1:10 PM AZPaul3 has responded
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 71 of 159 (887858)
08-23-2021 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by LamarkNewAge
08-23-2021 1:10 PM


Re: Dark Energy does not add any extra "space" to Space in a galaxy.
The effects of expansion are known and measured. Our measures, both of them, are in conflict. They give us different values. 67.66±0.42 km/s/Mpc from the Planck data (CMB analysis) and 74.03±1.42 from the supernova data.

This conflict has not been resolved.

Even with this conflict there are strong hypotheses on the proposed mechanism - the vacuum energy of space and quintessence.

In each hypothesis the proposed mechanism is universal to all space. There is nothing in these hypotheses to limit that expansion in the presence of any other objects or forces. Universality means all space everywhere.

There are others with different ideas but as a discipline those are our present hypotheses for dark energy. And as hypotheses they are, of course, subject to major revision in the light of further data.

You appear to dispute the universality of each of the proposed mechanisms.

What mechanism do you propose would halt such an expansion of the space at the tip of your nose? What mechanism do you propose would halt such an expansion of the space in an atom?

What evidence makes you believe such universality does not hold?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 78 of 159 (888008)
08-29-2021 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by LamarkNewAge
08-29-2021 12:12 AM


Re: Steven Weinberg mentioned god and dark energy when asked about the multiverse
It is interesting that the issue of the (possible) multiverse will quickly become something of a theological issue.

Not will but is. Everything in cosmology raises theological issues for those religiously enamored.

( One poster attempted to get around my suggestion, that space expansion, at the galaxy level, at the present time, has not been demonstrated, by bringing god/gods into the discussion. The comment was clearly an attempt to twist and confuse my points, but the poster bragged, in a subsequent post, about what a clever attack he was making.)

We'll disagree on the emotional overtones of your little whine. Anyone interested in details can see Message 51.

The first ever proponent of the Big Bang, George's Lemaitre, in a 1927 scientific paper, had to remove references to the biblical book of Genesis from his theory.

They were originally in there because, as ignored facts would have it, Fr. Lemaître was an ordained catholic priest. Of course he saw his hypothesis in biblical terms.

These religious treatments are to be expected from those attempting to shoehorn the new views into their stone-age philosophies.

Weinberg said:

Other than an astute observation and opinion, do you see something of more significance to his answer?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-29-2021 12:12 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-29-2021 10:20 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 81 of 159 (888067)
09-01-2021 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by LamarkNewAge
08-29-2021 10:20 PM


And So?
Steven Weinberg mentioned god and dark energy when asked about the multiverse

He also mentioned the scaler field particle, the Higgs Boson, but that was earlier, I think. It helps to provide infirect evidence for the Inflaton particle, along with the WMAP evidence, I believe

He mentioned some of your favorite buzz words: Higgs, multiverse, god etc.

And this is significant, how?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-29-2021 10:20 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-01-2021 10:12 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 83 of 159 (888077)
09-02-2021 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by LamarkNewAge
09-01-2021 10:12 PM


Re: And So?
He did not mention god when he was asked if the multiverse theory could ever be tested. He earlier mentioned the god issue.

But he did mention the god issue and you must have given it significance enough to point that out. Even in your title.

(You combined words from an earlier post, when gods were mentioned, by me. If you cant label my quotes, with a post number, then at least use a 4 dot ellipsis between quotes)

Having problems following the discussion?

Higgs was mentioned earlier in his interview. I mentioned it because Higgs is a scaler field particle. ... (ellipses)

So there is no significance to why Dr. Weinberg uttered the word "god". It was just a part of the history he was relaying. Yes, I read the article.

Ok.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-01-2021 10:12 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 86 of 159 (888898)
10-20-2021 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Tanypteryx
10-17-2021 1:03 PM


Re: Planetary Defense
This would be a much more useful project for the billionaire rocket men than sending dimwits into space.

If done properly shooting billionaires into space could be a very worthwhile project for our species. The issue I see is, right now, we spend too much effort and resources to get them back once we got them up there. Cut out the return trip expense. The next flight of billionaires could be called The Guillotine. On a reusable rocket.

Or maybe not.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-17-2021 1:03 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 88 of 159 (888900)
10-20-2021 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Tanypteryx
10-17-2021 1:03 PM


Re: Planetary Defense
... let the Earth take the hit, the researchers said, but first to disassemble the asteroid into smaller pieces — typically the size of a house — and let the fragments enter the Earth’s atmosphere.

Ok, these guys are way smarter than I but this seems ... nuts.

Chelyabinsk was the size of a house. Ok, so a really big house, but it wasn't mountain-sized. These guys want to breakup the mountain into a gazillion Chelyabinsks spread all around the globe. Is that much better than getting hit by a Chicxulub?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-17-2021 1:03 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

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 Message 89 by jar, posted 10-20-2021 4:39 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 90 of 159 (888902)
10-20-2021 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by jar
10-20-2021 4:39 PM


Re: Planetary Defense
Serious concern there, jar. Can they pulverize such a thing fine enough to just flash fry the surface of the earth rather than punch a big hole in it first?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(3)
Message 99 of 159 (888918)
10-23-2021 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
10-23-2021 3:58 PM


Re: Planetary Defense
First of all, you are stereotyping Christians.

Nah. nwr’s characterization of Christians as anti-humanist thoroughly unchristian Christians is quite accurate and does cover all of the myriad laundry-list of cults that is Christianity.

Our challenge as critics and supporters is to find consensus.

Our challenge is to strip the religious bullshit from every serious human endeavor. Our challenge is to stop the poison of religion from continuing to ravage the mind of the species.

"bullshit religious issues" won't go away. Nor will religion being mixed with politics.

Oh, but they will. All such fantasies come to an end in the light of reality. Ask the now unemployed volcano gods. Ask Zeus, if you can even find him these days.

Not long off is the day when you can opt to receive your daily horoscope, bible verse, and mini-crossword with your morning joe treating each as no more than a fun cultural artifact. Religion may not die right away but will be relegated to the same humorous quips we presently give astrology and children's games.

quote:
Your bible quote for today:

Nehemiah 3:3-4

3 The Fish Gate was rebuilt by the sons of Hassenaah. They laid its beams and put its doors and bolts and bars in place. 4 Meremoth son of Uriah, the son of Hakkoz, repaired the next section. Next to him Meshullam son of Berekiah, the son of Meshezabel, made repairs, and next to him Zadok son of Baana also made repairs.

To opt out of Daily Bible Quotes go to dbq/opt out/stop-this-shit


From there it can die quietly, unnoticed. Hallelujah.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 10-23-2021 3:58 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 106 of 159 (888970)
10-27-2021 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by ringo
10-25-2021 12:51 PM


Re: Planetary Defense
Ideologies are categorizations of similar-like thoughts. They are meant to describe bodies of common thought. They are not (supposed to be) unthinking emotional knee-jerk labels used in place of contemplative guided thought.

Categorizations are what humans seem to do to excess which gives much fodder to the denizens of philosophy departments everywhere. What philosophers have done with ideologies is staggering. We can now quantify the nuances of human thought and distill them down to rote tweetable descriptions, none with which any great number of the pointy-heads can actually together agree.

Now all this ideological philosophising is loose in the hate-filled paranoia of an online, realtime, social-media world. And the result, as expected, is the blurring of the lines, misunderstanding, deliberate subterfuge, gnashing of teeth, threats of violence and the fragmenting of society.

Heartwarming in an odd way. This gives us more data points in the evidence of the uselessness of philosophers.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by ringo, posted 10-25-2021 12:51 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by ringo, posted 10-27-2021 4:13 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 111 of 159 (888976)
10-27-2021 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
10-27-2021 4:14 PM


Re: Planetary Defense
Phat, you're doing it again. You are mixing crazy with ... well, more crazy.

That God and Jesus are human-created characters in a book and that one can be a good Christian simply by being an empathetic humanist are both demonstrable facts. This negates their characterization as coming from false prophets.

The book is indeed a fiction as are its characters. That is known reality from copious evidence. As for empathetic humanist, well, that's the role Jesus played in the book in between scenes of incredible woo-woo majik, so empathetic humanist seems to be the way christians were originally meant to be. Didn't work. Christians turned out to be quite the opposite. Too bad it didn't work.

You can tell real false prophets when they quote bible verses and such.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 10-27-2021 4:14 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 113 of 159 (888994)
10-28-2021 7:03 PM


The Standard Model
Serious science education here.

Most know of the Standard Model and, frankly, most don't care. It works and so here we are.

This is a layman's deep dive into all the different particles, forces, interactions.

Did I mention laymen? Skittish of the math but really yearn to know? Wanna get deep without suffocating in your limitations?

IMHO, this beautifully designed presentation solves these.

Even those who know could come away with an enhanced view of the power of the model because of the groupings by various interactions these graphics show. New ways to look at the mess that is our best model of reality.

Yeah, I know a lot of us know this stuff in detail already but this presentation, imho, gives satisfaction to the need for depth without hitting the wall. It may be helpful.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6211
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 116 of 159 (889002)
10-29-2021 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by LamarkNewAge
10-28-2021 10:57 PM


Re: The Standard Model
... of 9 total posters left ...

As long as Percy keeps the sandbox open we're going to come and play. You seem to have joined us. Remember, as with most things internet, stay and play as long as you're having fun.

It's good to have a squeaky toy in the forum. This is fun.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-28-2021 10:57 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
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