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Author Topic:   COVID vaccine works - we're saved!
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 151 of 173 (888860)
10-14-2021 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Percy
10-13-2021 11:07 AM


Re: How Are We Supposed To Feel About Dead Antivaxers?
The academic literature will ignore the "conspiracy" issues. Minority groups will be concerned about drugs designed to kill them, not underrepresentation of diverse genomic pools in trials.

Zongsmith needs to get out a little more, if he thinks 9/11 conspiracy theories contradict my post. Has he ever talked to minority group members in - for example - New York City? He thinks 9/11 conspiracy views are so fringe? Really?

I should point out that I, personally, dont associate "racial" groups as THAT different from one another ( I could never figure out how a Puerto Rican was considered any less "white" than a Jewish or Italian person, but that is another story), and that is true on multiple levels.

(I was born in New York, so forgive me if I describe "whites" as essentially Jewish or Italian)

But, culturally, the fears of vaccines are very real in minority communities. I have not been to NYC since 2017 ( not for lack or desire, as my heart is there), but I know what people think and say ( coronavirus vaccine issues in NYC are a bit out of my NYC milieu, but I have had plenty of influenza vaccine talks there.

I did a search on the web and it does seem that the real vaccine fear issues are being slid over by the academic community (and white online community generally)..

That is my take on the issue. Take it or leave it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Percy, posted 10-13-2021 11:07 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by ringo, posted 10-14-2021 12:31 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
ringo
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Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 152 of 173 (888861)
10-14-2021 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by LamarkNewAge
10-14-2021 12:12 AM


Re: How Are We Supposed To Feel About Dead Antivaxers?
LamarkNewAge writes:

He thinks 9/11 conspiracy views are so fringe? Really?


Really. The full term is "lunatic fringe". And it is meant literally.

LamarkNewAge writes:

I could never figure out how a Puerto Rican was considered any less "white" than a Jewish or Italian person....


"Whiteness" has little to do with color.

LamarkNewAge writes:

... the fears of vaccines are very real in minority communities.


True. And that's a reaction caused by distrust of white "solutions" in general. In Canada, for instance, why would indigenous people trust any solutions from the people who "solved" their education problem by abducting their children and forcing them into abusive residential schools? Maybe white people don't really have minorities' best interests at heart?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-14-2021 12:12 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-17-2021 1:21 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 153 of 173 (888873)
10-17-2021 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by ringo
10-14-2021 12:31 PM


Re: How Are We Supposed To Feel About Dead Antivaxers?
I just found a September 2020 poll, by AEI, that covered LOTS of issues.

Back when a bit less than half of Americans said they would get a FDA-approved vaccine, only 20% of blacks said they would.

So that backs up my observations that most anti-vaxxers could have been from racial minorities, until recently, anyway.

There was a version of a 9/11 Truther question asked, in the poll.

It asked if the Bush administration had advanced knowledge of the specific 9/11/2001 operation , but allowed the attacks to happen.

17% said yes

51% said no

32% were not sure

(The poll could have asked whether the Taliban government was justified in not turning over bin Laden, until his accusers proved that he, as well as the other accused, were really involved in the planning and/or operation. The early statement from bin Laden emphatically denied any involvement)

(Middle easterners, in their home lands, generally feel that the later videos, of bin Laden, are fakes - or, alternatively, they feel he was always a mole pretending to oppose the foreigners who menace the Middle East, while secretly working for the enemy)

(Polls consistently show that Arab populations are majorit 9/11 Truth believing )

The poll only asked 1 question on 9/11

Poll:

Conspiracy Theories, misinformation, Covid-19, and the 2020 election.

Findings from the September 2020 American Perspectives Survey

Daniel A. Cox

(Cox does a sly little inoculation trick, when he prefaces the poll with commentary that includes a grant that the CIA had information of a "general" attack by "al Qaeda". He leaves it essentially at that)

(Perhaps a better question would have centered on the much more salient issue of whether the CIA had enough advanced information avaliable to have been able to have stopped the attack?)

(And French intelligence had evidence of bin Laden meeting CIA officials in Dubai, from June 28 to July 4, 2001, if I recall correctly)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by ringo, posted 10-14-2021 12:31 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by xongsmith, posted 10-17-2021 4:51 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2092
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 154 of 173 (888874)
10-17-2021 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by LamarkNewAge
10-17-2021 1:21 PM


Re: How Are We Supposed To Feel About Dead Antivaxers?
LNA writes:
I just found a September 2020 poll, by AEI, that covered LOTS of issues.

Back when a bit less than half of Americans said they would get a FDA-approved vaccine, only 20% of blacks said they would.

ok. but then even I would have had reservations. Afterall, Trump was in office and this may have been seen as a political stunt. And he turns everything he touches into shit. And obviously he is a racist.

I think the tide is turning now, but haven't seen anything.


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-17-2021 1:21 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-17-2021 7:50 PM xongsmith has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 155 of 173 (888876)
10-17-2021 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by xongsmith
10-17-2021 4:51 PM


Re: How Are We Supposed To Feel About Dead Antivaxers?
I am going by personal conversations, but it seems that the majority of black Americans do not see Trump as holding racial views different from the average American white (including white liberals)

On the coronavirus, the evolution of views, from 9/2020 to now, had more to do with external- presidential election 2020 factors, relative to the respective administration.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by xongsmith, posted 10-17-2021 4:51 PM xongsmith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by xongsmith, posted 10-17-2021 9:51 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2092
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 156 of 173 (888879)
10-17-2021 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by LamarkNewAge
10-17-2021 7:50 PM


Re: How Are We Supposed To Feel About Dead Antivaxers?
LNA continues:
it seems that the majority of black Americans do not see Trump as holding racial views different from the average American white (including white liberals)

that would be correct. The average white American is racist.

even myself, constantly trying to identify it and stop it. we all are.


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-17-2021 7:50 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-18-2021 10:42 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17033
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 157 of 173 (888881)
10-18-2021 2:29 PM


Australia gets something right

Michael Gunner, Chief Minister of the Northern Territory answers Ted Cruz.

Hey @tedcruz, g'day from the Northern Territory in Australia. Here are some facts.

Nearly 70,000 Texans have tragically died from COVID. There have been zero deaths in the Territory.
Did you know that?

Vaccination Is so important here because we have vulnerable communities and the oldest continuous living cuture on the planet to protect.
Did you know that?

We've done whatever it takes to protect the Territory. That's kept us safe AND free.
We have been in lock down for just eight days in 18 months. Our businesses and schools are all open
Did you know that?

We don't need vour lectures, thanks mate, You know nothing about us.
And if you stand against a life-saving vaccine, then you sure as hell don't stand with Australia.

I love Texas (go Longhorns), but when it comes to COVID, I'm glad we are nothing like you,

Just perfect.


Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by jar, posted 10-18-2021 2:50 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 158 of 173 (888882)
10-18-2021 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by PaulK
10-18-2021 2:29 PM


Re: Australia gets something right
Ted is a **** and asshole but...

... remember, the Northern Territory is about twice the size of the whole state of Texas with a total population about the same as the city of Garland Texas or of Irving Texas.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 10-18-2021 2:29 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 159 of 173 (888885)
10-18-2021 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by xongsmith
10-17-2021 9:51 PM


Re: How Are We Supposed To Feel About Dead Antivaxers?
I just posted my observations that John McCain juxtapositioned somebody of Arab ethnicity with somebody who is a "good, decent, American" and, despite the media attention the comment got, recieved almost no criticism from white Americans.

We spent the first decade+ of the 21st century fighting a ****** "War on Terror".

NATO invaded Africa. (Yes, a European "defensive" military invaded Muslim North Africa and few deny it was purely offensive, with zero defensive justifications)

Iraq was accused of being behind 9/11. (Which 47% of Americans believed in the first decade of this century)

Arab sentiments are disregarded as "lunatic fringe".

I see a pattern here.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by xongsmith, posted 10-17-2021 9:51 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 160 of 173 (888906)
10-22-2021 11:35 AM


What metric does one go by to measure what constitutes a "fringe" view?
Nate Silver had an article, over a decade ago, that was titled along the lines of The Difference Between a Truther and a Birther.

(Aug 4, 2009. Just checked and edited post)

He was responding to conservatives who pointed out that a May 4, 2007 Rasmussen poll showed that 35% of Democrats said Bush knew of the 9/11 attacks, in advance, but did nothing to stop them. 26% of Democrats were not sure.

Silver responded that, while only 26% of Republicans held a skeptical position ( either not sure or felt Bush Knew) on Bush's knowledge of the attacks, the same poll found that 43% of Republicans either believed or were not sure of CIA foreknowledge of the attacks.

29% of all Americans felt the CIA Knew.

22% felt Bush Knew.

Today, we know that the Silver standard for a conspiracy theorist has 49% in the skeptical position, on "Bush Knew", with 51% saying, flat out, that Bush Did Not Know.

The real question is whether the CIA KNEW.

I wish we had some recent polling data.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 161 of 173 (889113)
11-03-2021 7:28 AM


We Have Achieved Herd Immunity
Unfortunately it's immunity from informed scientific advice. Enough people are never going to get vaccinated, mask up and avoid large social gatherings.

I check the covid case numbers everyday, and I think we're in the beginning stages of a fall bump. Too early to be certain, we'll know in another week or two.

--Percy


  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8236
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 162 of 173 (889432)
11-26-2021 12:43 PM


Oh Crap...
.... here we go again

Summary

The EU is calling on member states to halt travel to and from nations where the new highly-mutated Covid variant has been found

Health Secretary Sajid Javid says there is "huge international concern" over the variant first found in southern Africa - but there are no UK cases

Belgium has identified one case of the new variant within its borders, the person arrived from Egypt earlier this month

The UK has imposed travel restrictions on six African countries over concerns that vaccines may be less effective against the variant

Countries including Germany, Italy, Israel, Japan, Kenya and Singapore have also restricted travel

A top UK health official calls it "the most significant variant" to date, while an Oxford scientist tells the BBC: "It is bad news but it's not doomsday"

The World Health Organization cautions against travel bans but is holding a special meeting to discuss the variant


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Percy, posted 11-27-2021 9:49 AM Tangle has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 163 of 173 (889443)
11-27-2021 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Tangle
11-26-2021 12:43 PM


Re: Oh Crap...
Oh, that reminds me. A few weeks ago just from following the daily numbers I thought we might be in the early stages of a fall bump, and it looks like we were. My thoughts, given past patterns, are that we'll peak in mid-December and be back to low numbers again between mid-February and mid-March.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Tangle, posted 11-26-2021 12:43 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Tangle, posted 11-27-2021 11:56 AM Percy has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8236
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 164 of 173 (889444)
11-27-2021 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Percy
11-27-2021 9:49 AM


Re: Oh Crap...
If this new variant gets round the vaccines, we're almost starting again from scratch. Informed speculation is that the current vaccines should prevent serious illness but everyone's guessing at the moment.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Percy, posted 11-27-2021 9:49 AM Percy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-27-2021 3:07 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2622
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 165 of 173 (889448)
11-27-2021 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Tangle
11-27-2021 11:56 AM


Re: Oh Crap...
If a new wave is coming that the vaccines don't protect against , this time we are not back to ground zero.

We have almost 2 years practicing what can keep us uninfected. Masks and other personal protective equipment were in short supply 2 years ago for the general population as well as healthcare workers.

We can develop new vaccines in just a few months now and we have gotten way better at distributing them and a lot of other essential supplies, too.

Not getting infected is the key, because hospital systems and staff are still overwhelmed and under staffed during each wave.

Eventually, you would think that risky behavior with regard to Covid will start to show measurable Darwinian selection against the demographics that are not protecting themselves.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Tangle, posted 11-27-2021 11:56 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by nwr, posted 11-27-2021 3:20 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
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