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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 421 of 773 (889561)
12-04-2021 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 420 by nwr
12-04-2021 2:01 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
I find it interesting that I, as a gun carrying US citizen I (and quite a few of the gun owners with whom I associate) think that the verdict in the Rittenhouse trial was correct.
The fact that there even was a Rittenhouse trial though is an example of the racism in the US today and of the continuing White Privilege.
Had Rittenhouse been black it's very unlikely he would have lived through the night and not been executed by the police right then and there.
But wait, there's more.
As a gun owning and gun carrying US citizen I have never and would never go armed to a protest. Rittenhouse behaved like the kid whose brain has never developed yet and who has never been taught morality or how to even think. He is an unfortunate product of the abysmal state of US education. What he did was simply stupid and an indication of his complete and total immaturity.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by nwr, posted 12-04-2021 2:01 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by nwr, posted 12-04-2021 4:30 PM jar has not replied
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM jar has replied
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 12-05-2021 3:20 PM jar has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6445
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 422 of 773 (889564)
12-04-2021 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by jar
12-04-2021 3:10 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
I am not a gun owner, but I respect the jury verdict.
As a gun owning and gun carrying US citizen I have never and would never go armed to a protest. Rittenhouse behaved like the kid whose brain has never developed yet and who has never been taught morality or how to even think. He is an unfortunate product of the abysmal state of US education. What he did was simply stupid and an indication of his complete and total immaturity.
I completely agree with this (apart from not being a gun owner).

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by jar, posted 12-04-2021 3:10 PM jar has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 423 of 773 (889565)
12-04-2021 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by jar
12-04-2021 3:10 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
Had Rittenhouse been black it's very unlikely he would have lived through the night and not been executed by the police right then and there.
Do you know who Michael Byrd is? Probably not, most Americans don't, that name doesn't make the news. He's the black capital policeman who murdered a white woman, Ashli Babbitt, on January 6th. She was unarmed. There was no trial for him. He's still alive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by jar, posted 12-04-2021 3:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by kjsimons, posted 12-04-2021 11:05 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 425 by xongsmith, posted 12-04-2021 11:07 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 429 by PaulK, posted 12-05-2021 2:26 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 430 by dwise1, posted 12-05-2021 2:41 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 431 by DrJones*, posted 12-05-2021 2:46 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 432 by jar, posted 12-05-2021 6:49 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 433 by Percy, posted 12-05-2021 9:16 AM marc9000 has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 825
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


(3)
Message 424 of 773 (889566)
12-04-2021 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by marc9000
12-04-2021 10:33 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
An insurrectionist trying to break through barricaded doors isn’t an innocent victim. She was part of a violent mob trying to overthrow a legal election.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by marc9000, posted 12-05-2021 12:07 AM kjsimons has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(3)
Message 425 of 773 (889567)
12-04-2021 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by marc9000
12-04-2021 10:33 PM


Re: Ashli Babbit
She wasn't murdered. Suicide by cop maybe. Warfare enemy combatant, maybe.
Try again.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by marc9000, posted 12-05-2021 12:08 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 426 of 773 (889568)
12-05-2021 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 424 by kjsimons
12-04-2021 11:05 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
An insurrectionist trying to break through barricaded doors isn’t an innocent victim.
Neither are scumbags like George Floyd who physically engage police.
She was part of a violent mob trying to overthrow a legal election.
Joseph Rosenbaum was part of a violent mob trying to burn and loot a city. He tried to grab Rittenhouse's gun. No evidence that Babbitt tried to grab Byrd's gun. There should have been a trial. But black mob members killing white people is not uncommon. Seldom if ever makes the news.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by kjsimons, posted 12-04-2021 11:05 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 427 of 773 (889569)
12-05-2021 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 425 by xongsmith
12-04-2021 11:07 PM


Re: Ashli Babbit
She wasn't murdered. Suicide by cop maybe. Warfare enemy combatant, maybe.
George Floyd wasn't suicide by cop? Double standards?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by xongsmith, posted 12-04-2021 11:07 PM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by AZPaul3, posted 12-05-2021 12:34 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8616
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 428 of 773 (889570)
12-05-2021 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by marc9000
12-05-2021 12:08 AM


Re: Ashli Babbit
George Floyd was murder by cop.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by marc9000, posted 12-05-2021 12:08 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17861
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 429 of 773 (889571)
12-05-2021 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by marc9000
12-04-2021 10:33 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
I realise that Ashlii Babbit was a hero to you because she was trying to destroy the Constitution, but that doesn’t mean that her death wasn’t justified. And I’m not surprised you’d hate a patriotic American for doing his duty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(5)
Message 430 of 773 (889572)
12-05-2021 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by marc9000
12-04-2021 10:33 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
... , Ashli Babbitt, ...
Ashli Babbitt was a US Air Force veteran. My understanding is that she was an SP (Security Police). SPs are the ones who provide security for USAF facilities, including the alert pad and weapons storage areas. They are taught to take their duties very seriously.
If you are trying to gain access to any secure area and there's anything about that looks or sounds wrong, then you can be subject to getting jacked up immediately and found yourself face-down in the snow with an M-16 muzzle jammed against the back of your neck (as per reports by airmen who had had that personal experience with the business end of an M-16 or had personally witnessed it happening).
In addition, we were taught in basic training about the red lines. Especially on SAC bases (and I was stationed on one), secure areas are indicated by a red line painted around that secure area (eg, aircraft on the alert pad). SPs are authorized to use deadly force on anyone crossing the red line for which they are responsible -- actually, remembering back I seem to recall that they have standing orders to shoot to kill. Absolutely no requirement to determine first whether that intruder is armed.
By physically breaching the secured perimeter of the House chambers (the doors were locked down and had to be breached by violent force), she crossed that red line. She definitely knew what she was doing and what the consequences should be -- if after 12 years of service, especially if she was an SP, she still didn't know that, then she couldn't have been very smart which is supported by her not having advanced past E4 (SrA) after 12 years (I had made E5 in a third of that time).
She crossed that line during a high security situation (she and her fellow f**king traitors were physically attacking the Capitol with extreme malice and were fighting to gain physical access to government officials for the obvious purpose of doing them grievous harm), she knew full well what she was doing, she knew full well what the consequences would be, and she got what she knew she would. Plus, that kept her fellow traitorous pukes from repeating her actions.
I feel sorry for her family, but she paid for her own stupidity and she alone is responsible ... except for whoever incited her traitorous actions (eg, Trump, Lin Wood). I hope that she didn't have any children, so that she could qualify for a Darwin Award by having removed herself from the gene pool through conspicuous stupidity.
Edited by dwise1, : Corrected my military record: "I had made E5 in a third of that time", not half

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2304
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 431 of 773 (889573)
12-05-2021 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by marc9000
12-04-2021 10:33 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
of course a pig fucker like you would support a traitor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 432 of 773 (889574)
12-05-2021 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by marc9000
12-04-2021 10:33 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
As usual you simply lie. That is a defining characteristic of today's so called "Biblical Christians".
Yes, I know who Michael Byrd is and yes, the name actually did make the news but sometime after his heroic act. And he murdered no one and Ashli Babbitt was a very stupid person who was in the act of trying to enter a restricted area even after being warned repeatedly. She was not a rioter or looter but rather a terrorist and was justifiably shot.
AbE:
Marc, you are the perfect example of the biggest threat that the US faces; that portion of our population that places BELIEF over evidence, FANTASY over reality and SOURCE over content.
You and Phat and unfortunately millions of others are simply incapable or unwilling to make evidence-based judgements.
You and Phat and unfortunately millions of others are simply living totally divorced from all reality, honesty and morality.
You and Phat and unfortunately millions of others are simply to be feared and yet pitied.
You and Phat and unfortunately millions of others are free to post your fantasies and even vote based on your fantasies, but reality is still a factor, and your path can only lead to pain, suffering, disaster, racism, fascism and deaths.
You and Phat and unfortunately millions of others are a threat and so need to be labeled as such and your lies exposed and publicized.
Edited by jar, : see AbE

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22706
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(4)
Message 433 of 773 (889575)
12-05-2021 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by marc9000
12-04-2021 10:33 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
marc9000 writes:
Do you know who Michael Byrd is? Probably not, most Americans don't, that name doesn't make the news. He's the black capital policeman who murdered a white woman, Ashli Babbitt, on January 6th. She was unarmed. There was no trial for him. He's still alive.
Hey, Marc, thank you for what, given your history, could only be an honest, accurate and complete report. After reading this I guess I can safely assume that Ms. Babbit was obeying the law and not behaving in any unusual or threatening manner when, out of the blue and unprovoked, Michael Byrd inexplicably chose her of all people to fire his weapon at.
A couple weeks before the insurrection Babbitt sent this heartwarming reply to Kamala Harris who had tweeted about masking up, distributing vaccines, and getting kids back in schools:
quote:
"No the fuck you will not!” Ashli Babbitt replied to Harris. “No masks, no you, no Biden the kid raper, no vaccines...sit your fraudulent ass down…we the ppl bitch!"
This clearly makes Babbitt out to be a calm and rational person who represented no threat as she tried to invade the House chambers by climbing through the smashed security glass of its doors. I bet Babbitt had cupcakes and soft drinks for House members in her backpack.
It must be a real disappointment for you that you cannot wreak vengeance upon Michael Byrd, but he continues living his idyllic life. Sure, he's in hiding after death threats and racist attacks from the far right (that would be people like you), but I'm sure his life is just great.
I wish police were trained to wound or first fire warning shots, not kill, but as a group they are broadly against such measures because the former risks being less effective and the latter risks potentially causing unintentional injury to innocent people. I recall a case a number of years ago where a teenager engaged in target practice at his home fired a round into the air and it descended into a packed football stadium a mile away and killed a spectator.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by marc9000, posted 12-04-2021 10:33 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by marc9000, posted 12-05-2021 5:30 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22706
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(5)
Message 434 of 773 (889576)
12-05-2021 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Phat
12-04-2021 1:00 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
Phat writes:
I listen to Peter Schiff, whom Percy has already judged solely on the fact that Irwin Schiff was his father.
I see you're still a lying little shit. I lambasted all the shysters you were promoting over the summer, not just Schiff, because they were obvious used car salesmen playing on your gullibility to sell gold. I just happened to know that Schiff's father was also a shyster who spent time in prison, but that's not what makes his son a shyster. What makes Peter Schiff a shyster is that he makes up compelling stories so he can make money off suckers like you. Have you noticed that gold has trended downward since the summer? So Schiff is wrong. But at some point gold will go up again, and then Schiff will be right. And then it will go down and he'll be wrong again.
Don't you see what's going on here? All Schiff does is promote gold as an investment vehicle that has nowhere to go but up. Sometimes gold goes down and Schiff talks about something else. Sometimes gold goes up, and then Schiff brays (to use your word) about what a great forecaster he is. It's a schtick. Get a clue.
Schiff is knowledgeable about the economy and is usually right.
Back in 2009, and as recently as 2015, Schiff was forecasting that gold would rise to $5,000 within a few years? Would you say that 2021 is a few years after 2015? You would, right? Is gold anywhere near $5,000 right now? It's not, right? It's about three times less than that, right? Would you call being off by a factor of three an accurate prediction?
When Schiff first started talking about currency crises back in 2012 gold was around $1700. It spent most of the 2010's after that in the doldums around $1300, a loss of 25%, but now it's all the way up at $1767. That's an increase of 4% over ten years, or an annualized return of .39%. I know your thinking is cloudy these days, so I want to call attention to the decimal point. That is not a 39% annualized return but .39%, a hundred times smaller. That's a miniscule return.
If Schiff's so smart, why didn't he tell you to sell gold in 2012, then to start buying it again a couple years ago? But he didn't, did he. He's been telling people to buy gold for well over a decade. Why does he keep handing out this advice in both bull and bear markets for gold? Not because he has any special knowledge or insight, but because he makes money off of selling gold.
And where are those currency crises he was going on and on about a decade ago? We're still waiting. There are two secrets to becoming a successful market prognosticator. One is to make the same prediction about financial markets for years and years and years, because eventually you'll be right. The other is to make many different predictions, because some of them are bound to be right. Tout your successes and pretend your failures never happened. And just like that you'll become a successful market prognosticator.
On one of his podcasts from a couple of weeks ago, he addressed the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict and mentioned a few key observations regarding public reaction to it. <podcast not included>
For the umpteenth time, use your words and provide videos only as a reference. Explain Schiff's Rittenhouse verdict observations and why you think they're credible. I am not watching a video without seeing your summary of what it says along with your assessments, and even then only if you make sense.
  • Generation of entitled American socialists don’t think stealing is wrong.
  • You lying little shit. No liberals here nor as covered in the media have expressed this sentiment. Liberals think stealing is wrong. What they disagree with is your type of anger and vengeance approach to justice. Liberals want a system of justice that makes sincere efforts at rehabilitation that turns criminals into productive citizens. Instead, what many prisons do now is turn criminals into better criminals.
  • MSNBC promotes racism.
  • I can't wait to see the explanation for this one.
  • Law-abiding citizens don’t use cars or guns to kill people.
  • Law abiding citizens don't kill people. Period.
    Yes, this is some of the conservative "propaganda" which I listen to.
    He said, simultaneously both proud and ignorant.
  • The cries to buy gold and silver are being generated mainly by wealthy people. I conclude that the wealthy people are strongly against inflating the US Dollar as that action threatens their wealth.
  • How does inflation threaten the wealth of the wealthy? Do you think they keep their money in mattresses? Inflation is an inherent part of any modern economy, but it is a cause of concern and source of disruption when it rises too high. Expenses increase, wages increase, but not necessarily at the same time or at the same rate. But the wealthy with their investments in financial instruments and property that inflate along with everything else? They do fine. The wealthy are probably the group least threatened by inflation.
    The US Dollar competes directly with the historical discipline of precious metals, being the premier global reserve fiat currency.
    I'm sure no one has any idea what you're trying to say here. It sounds like you're calling precious metals a fiat currency, but that's dead wrong.
    The progressives see no problem as they actually want the wealthy to pay their "fair share" even though inflation is a "hidden tax" and will affect ALL of us.
    It's true inflation affects all of us, but not in the same way. Inflation makes some worse off, some not. It's a mixed bag. Some people are vulnerable to some cost increases but not others.
    Perhaps they (the progressives) see no other way to get blood out of a conservative turnip.
    I assume you're repeating a point from your video. No one's watching your stupid videos (or at least in my opinion no one should be watching them on your say so). Make the point in your own words. Even people who watch the video will likely have trouble recognizing what part of the video this is relevant to. You don't even bother to say something like, "About 5 minutes in where Schiff is discussing such-and-so," which is the minimal amount that you're required to say if you're trying to be comprehensible, which you're not, and which you haven't been able to be anyway for a while now.
    What jumped out at me from this episode, however, was the double standard regarding Kyle Rittenhouse (who happens to be white) vs the man who drove a car through a crowd several days later (who happens to be black). Schiff also touches on the California thefts and the double standard regarding the entitlement mentality of whites(like myself) and how it is addressed versus what he sees as an entitlement mentality against the progressive whites and people of color (which many see as justifiable reparations).
    Schiff commented on the Rittenhouse verdict at 41:05. (open transcript)
    Nice job on providing a time reference, but I'm still not watching your video until you give me an idea of what he said, which you do not do. What double standard? And your "California thefts" were not confined to California - you're still wrong about that. And what in the world are you talking about when you say "entitlement mentality against the progressive whites and people of color?"
    Of course, many progressives will claim that Schiff too is racist yet would defend the riots in Kenosha as justifiable. 42:00 onward
    Is this attitude about the Kenosha riots what you observe liberals saying, or is it what Schiff told you? Do you know any liberals who think rioting justifiable? You don't, do you. Neither does Schiff. That's because liberals don't think this. No large group is homogenous, but by and large liberals think the rioting a very unfortunate but predictable reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting.
    The progressive commentators saw the Rittenhouse verdict as a "victory for white people" and Schiff commented that was Fox News to say the same things against Black people that the commentators said about Rittenhouse they would have been fired.
    What saved Rittenhouse was that the 3 people whom he shot were white.
    So why was his verdict seen as racist?
    Because to gain a guilty verdict would only have required a change in the color of Rittenhouse's skin from white to black.
    --Percy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 417 by Phat, posted 12-04-2021 1:00 PM Phat has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 441 by marc9000, posted 12-05-2021 5:32 PM Percy has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18458
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 435 of 773 (889579)
    12-05-2021 3:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 421 by jar
    12-04-2021 3:10 PM


    Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
    jar writes:
    I find it interesting that I, as a gun carrying US citizen I (and quite a few of the gun owners with whom I associate) think that the verdict in the Rittenhouse trial was correct.
    Ok so far we agree. His actions, though immature as you say were no doubt self-defense.
    he fact that there even was a Rittenhouse trial though is an example of the racism in the US today and of the continuing White Privilege.
    What an odd statement. Are you suggesting there should have been no trial? I will agree that whites get defended more than blacks do, but the solution is not to punish whites.
    Had Rittenhouse been black it's very unlikely he would have lived through the night and not been executed by the police right then and there.
    I cautiously agree with some reservations.. "very unlikely" is an overstatement. You make it seem as if most police are racist and that most blacks get shot. It may well be ok to label overall justice as racist, but to label it as an example of white privilege is unfair to white people. Punishing white people as a point of justice is no better than reparations. Let each case be colorblind and stand on the facts.
    Rittenhouse behaved like the kid whose brain has never developed yet and who has never been taught morality or how to even think. He is an unfortunate product of the abysmal state of US education. What he did was simply stupid and an indication of his complete and total immaturity.
    As is true of most young blacks as well.Its not that there shouldnt have been a trial. Its that there should be more trials.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 421 by jar, posted 12-04-2021 3:10 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 436 by jar, posted 12-05-2021 3:27 PM Phat has replied
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