Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 481 of 773 (889635)
12-09-2021 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 478 by Percy
12-09-2021 8:30 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Percy writes:
Phat writes:
And for one thing, the money needs to be genuine and not "created" through an IOU. Fiat money is the bane of the FED.
Are you wearing fact repellant?
It's in his cornflakes too.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Percy, posted 12-09-2021 8:30 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 482 of 773 (889659)
12-10-2021 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by dwise1
12-07-2021 9:13 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
Where did you get your disinformation from? Here's a video taken at the moment that she was shot:
The vid Percy put up showed it from another angle. It confirms everything I said that you're referring to.
As we can very clearly see, when she was shot she was in the middle of climbing through the busted window in the door. To me, it looks like she was about to jump down into the House antechamber on the other side of that busted door, the side that the police were trying to keep secure.
She was ABOUT to. Maybe he could have waited until she completed it. Or maybe, instead of hiding in that little alcove without making a sound, he could have stood out in the open, and called to them repeatedly, pointing the gun at them, telling them they'd be shot of they entered. Maybe firing a warning shot to get their attention, that didn't kill anybody. There were several different things he could have done, besides hiding and killing her as soon as he got the chance.
As we can clearly see, that was not "BEFORE she went through the door", not even close. She was almost completely through it. Yes, she fell backwards, but that was undoubtedly in part due to the moment of the bullet hitting her.
"Almost completely", maybe NOT COMPLETELY would have been a better description.
As we can very clearly see, she was not standing on the mob's side of the door. Nor was she somehow arbitrarily chosen to be shot, but rather the police officer knew that he had to stop every person who tried to climb through, so he was aiming for that window. The reason why she was shot was that she was in that window climbing through it. Why did she do that? Sheer stupidity.
I agree it was stupid. But he might have made a stupid decision as well. Was he stupid for saying he "saved a lot of lives"? That was a subjective claim, not possible to prove or disprove it. He was outnumbered, threatened by a mob. He can say the sound of the shot, the sight of Babbitt falling to the floor, was enough to slow the mob, change the mob's direction etc. and it can be a legitimate claim. It seems to have been accepted without question, even though there's no way to solidly prove it. Let's see now, Kyle Rittenhouse was outnumbered, threatened by a mob. Did Rittenhouse save a lot of lives? I haven't seen all the court transcripts of course, but I feel sure Rittenhouse or his attorneys weren't crazy enough to make that claim, because that would have sent the mainstream media and the Democrat party into one of the biggest frenzies ever known to man. "SAVED A LOT OF LIVES????" They'd scream? "By shooting someone it saved a lot of lives??" This is clearly the reason we need more gun control since we're seeing this BRAND NEW kind of craziness from Republican gun nuts!!!" Do you agree that either BOTH of them saved a lot of lives, or NEITHER of them did? If you say only Byrd saved lives, while Rittenhouse did not, you might be a black supremacist.
We have all seen that over and over again. Why have you never seen it before? Because your disinformation sources doesn't want you to see what actually happened?
My only steady information source is ABC World News Tonight, a very liberal source, comes on after the local news, both during my usual evening meal. My Fox News viewing is sporadic, don't have a certain favorite show. I might have missed it if ABC showed it, but they've shown video of most of the rest of the January 6th riots dozens, if not hundreds of times. One thing is clear, they, and the rest of the media were a lot more proud of of smashing windows and unrest by that crazy, but non-liberal mob, than they were of a calm black policeman quietly, carefully aiming and killing a white woman. I found the vid Percy showed to be pretty shocking, the descriptions I got seemed to imply that Barney Fife got scared and accidentally fired his one bullet into a crowd, the poor dear. It wasn't quite like that.
I mention that because of what Rep. Ted Lieu said. He was part of the team presented the case against Trump in his record-breaking second impeachment.
It was record breaking all right, impeached after it was clear he was leaving office anyway. Today's Democrat stupidity knows no bounds.
The presentation included showing videos from the attack on the Capitol -- I forget whether Babbitt's shooting was shown there.
Well here's an educated guess for you, it probably wasn't. Even at least some liberals just might find Byrd's hiding in the alcove, and his calmness and careful aim to be a little disturbing.
When he wasn't giving the presentation, he waited with the others in the Green Room where they had TVs tuned to all the channels that were covering the impeachment proceedings live. When a video was shown to the Senate, they all showed the video. Except for one station: FOX News. Every time a video was shown as evidence, they either cut to a commercial or to commentators. Obviously, they did not want their audience to see the truth.
And where did you get this information from? Do you have a dozen television sets, or did a liberal commentator tell you that? Did they show the video of one policeman getting hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, wielded by a crazed Trump supporter? They probably didn't, since it was a made up lie. I've watched Fox News enough to know that they showed a lot of footage from that riot. Never saw them show the shooting though. Even Fox News seems to be getting afraid of the black community now.
BTW, the video I linked us to came from an ultra-conservative channel,
CGTN America. Also, many of the comments echoed my earlier amazement at how she could have ever served 14 years in the military (including three deployments to the Middle East) without ever having learned a single thing.
Just because you're amazed at something doesn't mean it's false. She could have learned a lot of things that didn't involve being too brazen during a riot. Maybe she missed a course on what not to do during a riot, maybe that course is given only to black soldiers, since before January 6th white riots were largely unheard of. Or maybe while stationed in the Middle East, she learned how damaging it can be if an election gets stolen - maybe she learned some Middle Eastern characteristics of rigged and stolen elections.
Yesterday Jussie Smollett was found guilty on 5 of 6 counts of completely faking a white supremacist attack on himself. That verdict is trumpeted a LOT less than all his lies that the mainstream media spent weeks lapping up when he was shrieking about this "attack". They say each count carries a maximum of three years in prison. I suspect he'll get a slap on the wrist, probation, a suspended sentence, or something similar. I suspect the judge who passes the sentence will be just as afraid of the black community as those who gave Michael Byrd his free pass to murder.
Now do you feel capable of addressing this message all by yourself, or do you welcome all the attacks and name calling that I'm sure to get from others, who don't have much confidence in your ability to address it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by dwise1, posted 12-07-2021 9:13 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by Percy, posted 12-15-2021 1:29 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 483 of 773 (889660)
12-10-2021 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by AZPaul3
12-08-2021 12:35 AM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
We talk about police murdering a man in public and you go off about race. I never even mentioned race in my message. But it sticks in your craw doesn't it?
Jar was the one who mentioned race, it was what inspired me to point out the fact that Byrd is black. You gang members should try harder to keep up with what your helpers are doing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by AZPaul3, posted 12-08-2021 12:35 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 485 by AZPaul3, posted 12-10-2021 9:46 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 484 of 773 (889661)
12-10-2021 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 460 by PaulK
12-08-2021 1:19 AM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
marc9000 writes:
It doesn't destroy the truth to point out facts, like Michael Byrd is black, is still alive, not lynched.
And nobody got even mildly annoyed at that.
Seven posters did, yourself included. My Message 423 You were so annoyed that you said I "destroyed the truth".
Yawn. And I suppose you expect us to believe that every response was likely that. Cherry-picking only proves your dishonesty.
Any time I refer to one specific thing, I'm "cherry picking"? Strange how gangs work together so well, yet you immediately distance yourself from one of your helpers blunders.
marc9000 writes:
I don't know what was in their minds, but breaking into one building hardly can be twisted into an attempt to "overturn an election".
That was the point of breaking into the building. The building where the legislators were certifying the election results. As even you must know.
I don't know what their point was. Maybe an inability to control themselves over illegal voting, ballot harvesting, hostility towards Republicans at polling places etc. I didn't go, I controlled myself. I'm now slightly enjoying watching Democrats and the mainstream media dance to try to cover for the screwed up Biden presidency.
And from what I remember the police had a lot to do with that. But nice try at creating a false equivalence.
Riot compared to a riot, a "false equivalence"?
So you insist that there were reasonable alternatives but you can’t think of any. It’s not exactly like the George Floyd case where the cop could have stopped kneeling on his neck and used approved restraint techniques instead.
I can think of several. Mainly, rather than hiding and hoping for a chance to kill a honky, the policeman could have gotten out in the open, stood a safe distance away, 20 or 30 feet, then made sure the crowd knew that when they COMPLETELY (not almost completely) crossed that window, they'd get shot. He had at least 8 shots in that gun, and most of the mob probably would have known that.
Or the three officers who were inside the door could have been a little more assertive, rather than wimping out and moving aside. Yes, several.
Here’s the DoJ statement
It explains why there was no trial.
Okay, I'll concede that point. Looked like a pretty quickie investigation though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by PaulK, posted 12-08-2021 1:19 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 492 by PaulK, posted 12-11-2021 1:16 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 485 of 773 (889662)
12-10-2021 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by marc9000
12-10-2021 9:05 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
Jar was the one who mentioned race,
You can camouflage the discussion all you want. The record shows.
I comment about the police murdering a man openly in the street in obvious response to your message mentioning Floyd and you tried to deflect by asking if Floyd was killed by black police officers.
Don't give us this jar excuse, liar. You are a typical racist. Disgusting, anti-american, republican.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by marc9000, posted 12-10-2021 9:05 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 487 by marc9000, posted 12-10-2021 10:49 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 486 of 773 (889663)
12-10-2021 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 462 by Percy
12-08-2021 11:59 AM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
marc9000 writes:
It doesn't destroy the truth to point out facts, like Michael Byrd is black, is still alive, not lynched.
Yes, Marc, you're right on top of things again, those are the exact points people were disputing.
Yes it was, because those are the exact points that were in my Message 423. There were none of my opinions there. Except maybe for my word "murder", the word that was used many times by the media when referring to the deaths of black crooks at the hands of white policemen.
They must be what people were disputing, else why would you use them as your examples of you telling the truth?
Yes, they must have been, because that was the message that got the angry responses.
You would never cite irrelevant examples, oh no, not you. Quite clearly people must have been disputing that Byrd is black, alive and not lynched. Thank you for pointing that out.
It was relevant, because of jar's implication;
jar writes:
Had Rittenhouse been black it's very unlikely he would have lived through the night and not been executed by the police right then and there.
They weren't disputing it, they just got angry that someone pointed it out, they want that forgotten about, since the goal is to always imply that anytime a black uses a gun, he gets lynched.
Oh, you are too kind, because as we all know the misrepresentation of the events of January 6th was far worse than that. Democrats built it up into some kind of giant insurrection thing when it was merely, as a Republican congressman informed us, like a mere tourist visit.
It was microscopic, compared to the many black riots of the past several years. It was a giant insurrection only because of amazingly sloppy Capitol security.
Percy writes:
one of the many gang members, can't keep track of them all writes:
In how many were the lives of the legislators at risk?
marc9000 writes:
In Seattle, the lives of anyone near that courthouse or police station were at risk.
Just so clever, Marc, answering a question with another question...
The above was a question? Looked like a statement to me.
that makes clear that invading the halls of Congress with the intent of halting the constitutionally mandated certification of the electoral college after a presidential election and where congresspeople hid under chairs is equivalent to the threat to life and limb of a riot in Seattle where no one was killed. Don't forget cars on roads, that puts people at risk, too, and so is also equivalent to the January 6th insurrection. Great point, Marc!
No congresspeople were killed. Must have been really impressive for our allies around the world to see our congresspeople hiding under chairs, rather than depending on some kind of well thought out security to keep them safe.
Pure genius, Marc, misrepresenting what I've said. After all, who will remember that my actual position is that almost no police should have guns. What are the odds that I'd think that the most important officials in the land and the most important building in the country should have armed protection?
Did you ever make that position clear? I never saw it, so now I understand. Only the central government headquarters should have guns. I'm sure that's how it is in North Korea.
Well now I just feel bad, but who could ever have imagined that your ability to inform yourself was so weak? We apologize for picking on you for your ignorance about something you insisted on talking about as if you were informed. From Wikipedia:
quote:
Following the routine process for shootings by Capitol Police officers, the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department and the Justice Department investigated Babbitt's death and declined to charge Byrd with shooting her.
I wasn't really referring to a "routine process", I was thinking more like a thorough investigation, similar to several that were done on Trump's personal life, or that of George Floyd.
Looking at the last full year, 2020, there were 2021 police murders and only 7 police officers charged. Also look at the disproportionate numbers for blacks, who are only 13% of the population but 24% of the police murders. How could it be that blacks are murdered at nearly twice their proportion of the population? But I bet good old Marc has a ready answer, maybe that they're criminal anyway and had it coming.
Because blacks commit far more crimes than whites do. Statistics have always shown blacks to have more problems with morality and civilized behavior than do whites. I know I'm a terrible racist for saying that, but facts are facts. Here is a racist statistic for you;
quote:
For all racial and ethnic groups combined, 39.6 percent of births in the United States were out-of-wedlock (incidentally, isn’t that appalling?). And there was as always a tremendous range among groups. For blacks, the number is 69.4 percent; for American Indians/Alaska Natives, 68.2 percent (Native Hawaiians/Other Pacific Islanders were at 50.4 percent); for Hispanics, 51.8 percent; for whites, 28.2 percent; and for Asian Americans, a paltry 11.7 percent.
[bolded mine]
Percentage of Births to Unmarried Women | Center for Equal Opportunity
Here's some more racism for you, in Cincinnati, as I'm sure it is in most medium / large cities in the U.S., food stores in black areas have closely spaced posts at the sidewalk to keep shopping carts from being destroyed / stolen in the parking lots. They don't in white areas. Auto-Zone parts stores in black areas have big concrete pillars at the end of the parking spaces to keep cars from ramming the store fronts. No such pillars at Auto Zone stores in white areas. Interstate overpass walkways have huge fences in black areas, to keep the little urchins from dropping rocks on passing cars below. No such fences in white areas. Food stores and drug stores often close in black areas - can't make a profit with so much grab-and-run / shoplifting going on. When was the last time you saw a white area with buildings boarded up, burglar bars over broken windows, graffiti everywhere? There are countless other examples. How tiny is the liberal bubble? Is it racist to point out facts? What makes it so interesting is the small, but significant percentage of blacks who are very good, productive people. Many thousands of them, they are represented by that list I put up in Message 457 If I had the chance to pick out the President, Vice President, Speaker of the House, and Senate Majority Leader, every one of my picks would come from that list.
Oh, evasion combined with counterattack, just the right tactic.
Almost the same as the common tactic by the gang, answering my post to one of your helpers, because you don't think he'll answer it sufficiently.
Who could ever believe you're racist anyway? No one believes you really mean all the racist things you say.
Depends on the meaning of the term "racist". Democrats seem to have re-defined it to mean anything that counters today's brand new far left Democrat ideology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by Percy, posted 12-08-2021 11:59 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 487 of 773 (889664)
12-10-2021 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 485 by AZPaul3
12-10-2021 9:46 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
I comment about the police murdering a man openly in the street in obvious response to your message mentioning Floyd and you tried to deflect by asking if Floyd was killed by black police officers.
Please specify the message number where I asked if Floyd was killed by black police officers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by AZPaul3, posted 12-10-2021 9:46 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by AZPaul3, posted 12-10-2021 11:16 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 488 of 773 (889665)
12-10-2021 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 463 by Percy
12-08-2021 12:23 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
Why, thank you for this quote from a white supremacist website. We don't get a lot of that here, so thank you. I'm curious, though. Why did you complain about name calling when called a white supremacist in a prior message but now are quoting from a white supremacist website?
So statistics are no good if the source has been labeled "white supremacist" by today's new Democrat party? Everything is now white supremacist if it's not in line with today's radical liberalism?
Another brilliant stroke! AZPaul3 had responded to your question about why there are "no memorials to white, dope-head crooks, like there are for George Floyd," and you responded in a way to completely hide that fact. The bust is of George Floyd but as a memorial it's a symbol of the effects of and fight against racism.
It's not a tradition in the U.S. to build monuments to drug addicted, non productive citizens. Do you have any understanding of racial hatred FROM blacks towards whites? If not, you've lived a very sheltered life. If you've ever heard some of MIchelle Obama's comments about whites, you'd know, From her, all the way down to Cincinnati ghettos, that kind of racism is everywhere. But with today's new definitions, it's not possible for a black to be racist, is it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by Percy, posted 12-08-2021 12:23 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 491 by AZPaul3, posted 12-10-2021 11:21 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 489 of 773 (889666)
12-10-2021 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Percy
12-08-2021 3:26 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
What an incredibly astute observer you are! Nothing gets by you! Yes, we liberals (of which I'm not one, but thank you for giving me honorary membership)
Percy's computer has been stolen by one of George Floyd's troubled teenaged sons! GIVE IT BACK, GIVE IT BACK!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by Percy, posted 12-08-2021 3:26 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 490 of 773 (889667)
12-10-2021 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 487 by marc9000
12-10-2021 10:49 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
Please specify the message number ...
Oh, well, now you got me. I never learned those message numbers and I certainly don't have the space remaining in my memory, given my advanced age and thus advanced knowledge, to have memorized any of them.
If you think my infirmities vindicates your lying racism, I guess that's another of your fantasies.
Message 453
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 487 by marc9000, posted 12-10-2021 10:49 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 491 of 773 (889668)
12-10-2021 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 488 by marc9000
12-10-2021 11:03 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
It's not a tradition in the U.S. to build monuments to drug addicted, non productive citizens.
Unfortunately this is becoming a tradition all too often observed in these days of openly racist murders by openly racist cops.
You see, it is not the drug-addicted or non-productive parts that matter but citizen. Cops openly murdering citizens. With racial motives.
Christian.
Those warrant monuments if even temporary.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 488 by marc9000, posted 12-10-2021 11:03 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(4)
Message 492 of 773 (889669)
12-11-2021 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 484 by marc9000
12-10-2021 9:37 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
quote:
Seven posters did, yourself included. My Message 423 You were so annoyed that you said I "destroyed the truth".
That’s a lie. Nobody - except you, perhaps - was at all upset that Michael Byrd was still alive. Derek Chauvin is still alive, too.
Here’s the entirety of my reply to your message:
I realise that Ashlii Babbit was a hero to you because she was trying to destroy the Constitution, but that doesn’t mean that her death wasn’t justified. And I’m not surprised you’d hate a patriotic American for doing his duty.
Which, of course anyone can see if they follow the links.
quote:
Any time I refer to one specific thing, I'm "cherry picking"? Strange how gangs work together so well, yet you immediately distance yourself from one of your helpers blunders.
If you intentionally choose the most extreme examples and try to pass them off as representative of course you are cherry-picking.
quote:
I don't know what their point was.
Obviously the point was to prevent the certification of the election. That’s what Trump was encouraging them to do.
quote:
Maybe an inability to control themselves over illegal voting, ballot harvesting, hostility towards Republicans at polling places etc
Which is really odd when - so far as anyone can tell - none of those things happened to any great extent. And there are plenty of worse things done by the Republican side.
quote:
Riot compared to a riot, a "false equivalence"?
Riot compared to insurrection - with an imminent threat to the legislators. So yes, a false equivalence.
quote:
I can think of several. Mainly, rather than hiding and hoping for a chance to kill a honky, the policeman could have gotten out in the open, stood a safe distance away, 20 or 30 feet, then made sure the crowd knew that when they COMPLETELY (not almost completely) crossed that window, they'd get shot. He had at least 8 shots in that gun, and most of the mob probably would have known that.
I don’t think we can count on the violent mob behaving rationally, because if they were they wouldn’t have been smashing their way into a secured area in the first place. I don’t see that Byrd could have assumed that none of the rioters had guns either.
Letting the rioters through the door seems a pretty obvious mistake - giving up the defensive advantage of the choke point. So, I don’t think your option is sensible.
quote:
Okay, I'll concede that point. Looked like a pretty quickie investigation though.
It seems a pretty clear case of justified homicide - especially compared to some. Daniel Pantaleo was never charged for killing Eric Garner either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by marc9000, posted 12-10-2021 9:37 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 493 of 773 (889688)
12-11-2021 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by Phat
12-09-2021 4:15 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
First of all, I expect the people to be more united as to what type of government they vote in.
I didn't ask what you expect the people to do. I asked you what you expect the government to do.
Phat writes:
And for one thing, the money needs to be genuine and not "created" through an IOU.
That doesn't answer the question either.
Let's try again: You said in Message 408:
quote:
I feel as if I am not being understood. One cannot simply throw money at a problem and fix it.
Hoe can you be understood if you won't tell us what alternatives you propose?
So, what else do you expect governments to do besides throw money?
Edited by ringo, : Spelling.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Phat, posted 12-09-2021 4:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 12-12-2021 1:15 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 494 of 773 (889734)
12-12-2021 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 493 by ringo
12-11-2021 11:06 AM


Consensus and the role of Goverment
ringo writes:
I didn't ask what you expect the people to do. I asked you what you expect the government to do.
The last time I checked (or recall from my catchphrase dictionary) the "government" was of, by, and for the people. We have a clear rift...a division here in the United States. The very rich pay over 40% of the taxes and are behind lobbying efforts to channel the money their way. The people-at-large are represented by roughly 53% of the popular vote (vs 47% conservatives) and thus the whole idea of what "the government" should do is contentious. Public opinion and belief is all over the map.
Just last night I ws up at the corner gas station having a conversation with Bruno, a young twenty-something student who works there. As we were discussing whether or not the official government news and sources can be trusted, Can The Inflation Crisis In The U.S. Be Stopped? as well as Covid-19 and real-life experiences in that realm. A man in line, a black man who worked for HUD at the local level and whose wife was a nurse, mentioned how she said that the hospitals were jammed full again (at least the one she worked at) and that everyone was sick and *not* that many were dying. (?WTF?) The entire line got into the conversation at that point...everyone had many family members who had in fact died.
Some folks trust Dr.Fauci as a source of information while others claim that he does not know what he is talking about. Of course, I stayed quiet and let everyone else talk. I find that listening benefits the conversations more than talking.
Getting back to your question as to what one expects "government" to do, the problems inherent in today's society are poorly understood and no consensus on them is ever easily found. To complicate matters, the pressures on US citizens are global pressures and is one reason why racist and selfish nationalist are up in arms.
From the transcript in the video I linked above concerning inflation:
quote:

(14:03)now that you can put an entire law library into a little chip of big data. You don't need a
paralegal in the United States, you can get a paralegal in India. So higher-income paying jobs right now are the ones that are at risk of being sent over shores and nobody's talking about that ...(14:28)you're actually going to have inflation in terms of the amount of education you need in America, you're going to need that graduate degree to have the pure certainty of income security going forward because you're going to need that next skills level up because a lot of jobs that require a bachelor's degree are going to go away. So that disinflationary impulse is going to be there.

ringo writes:
How can you be understood if you won't tell us what alternatives you propose?
So, what else do you expect governments to do besides throw money?
Throw it in the right places that generate a return rather than simply trying to support every uneducated citizen who has no clue how to be productive, lift themselves out of poverty, and get educated. Thus, low-cost education is one place to throw it. Recreating a media and/or information source that people will actually trust is another place to invest. Globalism is ugly and competitive, but there seem to be few alternatives to getting along. The populists would rather burn through the US fossil fuel reserves and pretend like it's 1960 again...while the main concern of mine is that the future consensus will be humanistic and non-religious. We need Jesus, but more importantly, we need to learn to be empathetic rather than selfish.
It's not an easy solution--what the government *should* do.
High on my priority list would be saving social security and taking care of us elders. Other people have other priorities. Educating their kids, affordable housing, and preventing social unrest are the main things now, it seems. As for global warming, China should pay at least as big a share to mitigate it as the US does, but they show no inclination to do so.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 493 by ringo, posted 12-11-2021 11:06 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 495 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2021 2:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 496 by ringo, posted 12-13-2021 11:13 AM Phat has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 495 of 773 (889735)
12-12-2021 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 494 by Phat
12-12-2021 1:15 PM


Re: Consensus and the role of Goverment
A question Phat. How can anyone who lived through the ‘70s think there’s an inflation crisis now?
I’ll add that the increasing need for qualifications is not that new. Even well-paid jobs going to India is not that new (I had a job - with a U.S. company - sent to India more than 10 years ago, so I’m in a position to know).
I’ll also note that your spending priorities put you very much on the “liberal” side. The “conservatives” - and even actual conservatives - very much want to trim that spending. Faith was openly complaining about it, if you remember.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 12-12-2021 1:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024