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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
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Message 534 of 767 (890076)
12-23-2021 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 533 by AZPaul3
12-23-2021 8:10 PM

Re: George Wallace wins 90% of the black vote! Fiction?
I will respond but you seem ignorant of the fact that the FBI & Hoover were the first power in the country during King's lifetime.

You are ignorant of the fact that various laws prevented over 80% of blacks, in a large number of states, from being able to vote.

Ringo thought John Wayne was making a call for more education funding in Mississippi (perhaps he is mistaking a rabid right winger, Wayne, with Republican Thad Cochrane? I don't know) I know you will spin that one away. Ringo was probably agreeing with John Wayne's "white supremacy" line, in ignorance. I will give Ringo that benefit.


I will find a book quote and respond later. Hoover was king of the land. The FBI was not simply elite, but it was the government.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 533 by AZPaul3, posted 12-23-2021 8:10 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by AZPaul3, posted 12-23-2021 9:27 PM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 542 by ringo, posted 12-24-2021 11:37 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

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Message 536 of 767 (890078)
12-23-2021 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 535 by AZPaul3
12-23-2021 9:27 PM

Ignorance of technical term "reeducation" might clue us into Ringo's "So do I" line.
I dont think he was saying that Wayne's line about supporting "white supremacy", while attacking black education levels, was his view. Ringo needs to learn before he talks.

I will find mainstream articles to clear up the confusion.

I will provide a context.

"Reeducation" and opposition to democracy (which was a "communist tool") were major right wing ideals during the 1960s.

It had everything to do with blacks and war.


I just found a November 2021 New Republic article. I found the "reeducation" issue briefly quoted. I will try to get it into its context.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by AZPaul3, posted 12-23-2021 9:27 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Message 539 of 767 (890081)
12-24-2021 2:11 AM

Critical Reading test for EvC posters (I get sick of none of this shit) : episode 55.
Let me start by introducing you to a lady named Angela Davis. I had sympathetic books on her for years but lost them. They were small old school paperbacks, which I took with me everywhere. I even donated one to a library. Enough about me.

Angela Davis earned a doctorate of philosophy, at Humboldt university.

Nuff said (hint)

(O yes, she was also the leader of the Communist Party USA)

Let me introduce you to the fascist censor, John Wayne.

Co founder of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals (MPA)

That founding was 1944, and he was made President in 1949.

He was the "black list" maestro before he found one Joe McCarthy around 1952ish.

He proudly ran screenwriter Carl Foreman out of the country. Directors Sam Wanamaker and Dalton Trumbo were blacklisted.

Ironically, J Edgar Hoover "blacklisted" John Wayne in 1963

Washington Post

He was outspoken off screen as well, and it is a delicious minor irony of his career that at least once he had to pay for it as he had made others do. In the '60s, the authors recount, Wayne was offered the role of narrator for the television show "The FBI story." J Edgar Hoover, after a background check on Wayne, refused to approve him.

Hoover used his power to block Wayne, due to his past affiliation with the John Birch Society (though Hoover was 100% ideologically identical to both Wayne & the JBS. Down to the last dotted "i". Probably a strange calculation on Hoover's part

Now Angela Davis was fired from UCLA, in 1970, and that was the big 1971 Playboy question that got Wayne to make his most racist comments on record.

But more background information is necessary.

The World of the John Birch Society: Conspiracy, Conservativism, and the Cold War

By D. Mulloy

P. 127

The Birch Society was far from alone in regarding the civil rights movement as being secretly beholden to, if not entirely controlled by, subversive communists foras, of course.Such beliefs were almost an article of faith for opponents of the freedom struggle in the South, and they had also found a home in the highest political office in the land, thanks in large measure to the tireless, obsessive, and often illegal efforts of FBI director J. Edgar Hoover. Convinced that communists had been behind the civil rights movement from its inception, Hoover bombarded the Kennedy administration with documentation on the subject, especially with regard to Martin Luther King's role in the supposed conspiracy. Indeed, the Kennedy's suspicions about the extent of communist influence over King and the civil rights movement is another reason why the administration was reluctant to engage with the issue more fully before 1963

Communists were target - actual communists.

Non communist blacks were also targeted, if they seemed to have a certain political bend.

But actual communists lost their jobs, alot.

Communism was a movement that was solidly against nationalism, and very much required democracy - in its purest form.

Black Americans, in supporting civil rights, fought for democratic processes - with unobstructed voting rights.

Revolutionary for the 1960s, as the right fides not actually exist.

Here is an article, which I will begin with a description of the John Birch society founder, Robert Welch.

We All Live in the John Birch Society's World Now
Chris Lehman
November 23, 2021

...he and his anti-statist allies saw social democracy as the harbinger of eventual Communist takeover, and solidly insisted that the U.S. was never meant to be a democracy and that the embrace of democracy spelled certain ruin. Recommending The People's Pottage, an anti-New Deal tracy by his friend Garrett Garrett as "required reading" for all Burchers, Welch hailed its clear-eyed account of the Communist-inspired conversion of "America, from a constitutional republic of self-reliant people into an unbridled democracy if handout seeking whiners." A common refrain of the Bircher faithful was that America is "a Republic ... not a democracy. Let's keep it that way!"


Welch was a far more disciplined messenger and on-the-ground organizer than the drunken and voluble Tailguner Joe [McCarthy] ever was. ...So when Welch founded the John Birch Society in 1958, he brought the anti-Communist crusade a new aura of gravitas.

But this image makeover also required discipline of a different kind - a concerted effort to weed out the racist, nativist, and antisemitic sentiments of the old anti-interventionist American right, ... Here Welch's record was at best mixed.

While he refrained from the uglier and more overt race-baiting of the right in the wake of the Supreme Court's landmark Brown verses the Board of Education... His conspiratorial mind prompted him to dismiss the civil rights uprising of the 1960s as simply another Communist plot.

A host of liberal Cold Warriors indeed indulged the same fantasy of rampant Communist subversion. In 1961 Robert F Kennedy claimed that "Communist espionage here in this country is more active in this country than it has ever been" ; in 1963 he ordered J Edgar Hoover to conduct surveillance on Martin Luther King jr. because of suspected ties to Communist associates.

William F Buckley famously assailed the group's obsession with secret Communist takeovers ... "There are ... great things that need doing," Buckley opined in the heat of his anti-Birch crusade in 1962: "the winning of a national election, the reeducation of the governing class. John Birch chapters do much to forward those arms..."

That is the general background set, which was pretty much current with the 1971 John Wayne Playboy interview.

Wayne was a 3 decade long blacklister, who was a Birch Society member as recently as the early 1960s. Wayne was blacklisted himself, by Hoover, but not for being a communist. Hoover did not want a Birch Society member to work, for the networks, on an FBI documentary.

"Cancelled" was the culture that communists were living in.

The black community was a massive target when it came to being labeled & stamped "brainwashed" - and communists were seen, by the government, as the brainwashed.

Then you have the black PhD Angela Davis, at UCLA, while heading the Communist Party USA.

Playboy asked John Wayne about the blacklist/cancel issue:

PLAYBOY: Angela Davis claims that those who would revoke her teaching credentials on ideological grounds are actually discriminating against her because she's black. Do you think that's true,

John Wayne: With a lot of blacks, there's a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can't all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until that blacks are educated to the point of responsibility. I dont believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.

It is about John Wayne supporting the "black list", and he is not concerned about college degrees. Blacks need to be kept in place until they have appropriate views. I know what he is saying. Make that one who gets what is going on.

(The EvC crew feels Wayne was making a point about degrees. And the crew feels that they have a legit attack, on blacks, I assume. I see both steps as pure crap, but that is my view.)

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Message 544 of 767 (890095)
12-24-2021 4:56 PM

Ringo's direct commentary on John Wayne's "white supremacist" line in post 526
He split my paraphrase, of the racist line, up into 2 different quotes, and he commented on 2 parts.

A poster, about 5 posts later, said that I was misunderstanding Ringo because the fact that Ringo parsed John Wayne's sentence (Ringo was, again, using my paraphrase reference) therefore was proof enough that I misunderstood what he was saying.

I have now provided the exact quote, of Wayne himself, with the entire Playboy question for context.

I ask that Ringo performs a reboot, and quotes Wayne's offending sentence.

(You can parse away Ringo, but do respond with whatever spirit you can conjure out of your head, or heart)

(AzPaul placed an approval disc, on post 526, so he can tell us what he really thinks of the Wayne comment. He can parse, as well, if he so wishes)

Replies to this message:
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 Message 546 by nwr, posted 12-24-2021 5:35 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

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Message 550 of 767 (890103)
12-24-2021 6:45 PM

An aside from our time.
Kinda amazing how the only thing the American people care about are U.S. troop deaths, when we occupy another group of civilians in another land. ( And while we kill the crap out of far more of the population in the occupied countries, than we loose among our troops)

Then we wonder "What is going wrong, why cant we have an easy time? Why are troops getting shot at? What!?"


We dont talk to the people of the invaded lands, to see what they want.

We dont care about talking - period -, and especially to a diverse section of the invaded countries regions & ethnic groups.

We offer the invaded people no ballot (with neither diverse nor simple questions/choices) to inform us.

(No non-corrupt ballot, free of loaded questions and choices - essentially puppets for a prospective client state in-waiting, that needs to know its place/placement)

We don't know anything about the people, really.

We dont raise a diverse military, made of natives - in the occupied lands - who represent a well ironed-out consensus of THEIR PEOPLE.

We just worry about "our intetests".


What is the result when we imposes "U.S. intetests" on a people in a far away land, while we shoot & bomb the crap out of the humans living in the occupation zone (often an entire modern country), and while we send a message that "All we care about are U.S. troop casualties"?

We have some examples from "our time".

The time we are all responsible for.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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Message 564 of 767 (890226)
12-29-2021 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by Phat
12-29-2021 5:38 PM

Rights of "the family" vs. "the government"? Please explain.
Pretty please...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by Phat, posted 12-29-2021 5:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

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Message 590 of 767 (891619)
02-05-2022 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by dwise1
08-22-2021 2:57 AM

A "xenophobic stooge" (D Wise) lectures against foolish "zero-sum" thinking?
Too good!

(Byron Dorgan used to joke about the way people labeled his anti-free-trade b.s.)

"People say us critics of NAFTA are just a bunch of 'isolationist xenophobic stooges'"

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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