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Author Topic:   Do you have Questions for a Gnostic Christian?
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 150 (890205)
12-28-2021 3:44 PM


With the mainstream religions failing, I tend to go to harm reduction topics to help the immoral right wing religions shrink.

I am not much into the myths we wrote to put against the Christian myth, when we all knew that it was foolish to believe in the supernatural.

I do like the universalist thinking and naturalistic aspect of religion that Christianity abandoned for supernatural thinking.

Garbage thinking to a Gnostic Christian.

Jesus asks in scriptures; have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

If you have forgotten your birth rite of godliness, but can think in material dualism terms, body soul term, then Gnostic Christianity has answers that I like and you might also enjoy.

I like to test my ideology/theology and show why I think it the best around, so if anyone would like to know why we are called the only good Christians, ask way on any moral issue and find out.

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 3:05 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 4 of 150 (890209)
12-29-2021 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
12-29-2021 3:05 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
Gnostic Christians, like all the esoteric branches of Christianity and Judaism, have never believed in the supernatural.

Most Jews, other than the right wing, like Gnostic Christians, like to point out how Jesus asked in scriptures, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

Gnostic Christians have not.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation and “I am”, represents the best rules and laws that we have found to live by.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.
Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
On Becoming an Adult - YouTube

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL


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 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 3:05 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 5 of 150 (890210)
12-29-2021 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
12-29-2021 3:05 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
On our Universalist thinking.

We have tied the righteousness of god with equality and universalism.

This gets a little weird but can be understood in modern term.

Gnostic Scriptures and Fragments: Epiphanes - On Righteousness

If we, body and soul, are all indeed created by nature equal in terms of best possible end, then whatever we all become, good or evil, depends on those around us.

For instance, Hitler was not born the evil scum he became.

All who interacted with him, we would see as facilitators and as such deserve any blame or reward.

We are all in that same situation, and anything other than universalist thinking is inferior thinking, --- with a creator that creates souls that are already destined to be good or evil.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 3:05 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 4:44 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 6 of 150 (890213)
12-29-2021 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
12-29-2021 3:05 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
"naturalistic aspect of religion that Christianity abandoned for supernatural thinking.”

The secret to understanding this is why Christians sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

It is also necessary tp our evolution, a naturalistic view of reality.

This old O.P to a Christian will show my views.

------------
Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane and immoral God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

-----------------------
Evolutionary theology.

O Necessary Sin of Adam (Does Christian Theology Need Adam & Eve?)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 3:05 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 8 of 150 (890216)
12-29-2021 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tangle
12-29-2021 4:04 PM


Keep your stuff secret and just keep talking to yourself.

That is really intelligent and you never lose an argument, because you never make one.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 12-29-2021 4:04 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 10 of 150 (890220)
12-29-2021 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by AZPaul3
12-29-2021 4:44 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
Your last is all garbage.

Message 4 shows my disdain for the supernatural.

We are the good Christians because we are not the dim ones who believe in the supernatural.

Nature shows us all we need to know. Nature is the only god type of icon man should acknowledge, as nature is what creates and sustains us.

“For it is God´s decree.....”

Read that as natures decree as it is a truth, or are you denying that men generally want a wife?

“Reality is ruled by physics. ?

Correct. Nature is physics to an esoteric ecumenist and perpetual seeker of the best rules and laws to live by.

. You are not paying attention to what I have put.

I can get your kind of arguments from brain dead believers.

That is not what I want to do in this O.P.

We, like the Jesus we quote, want to free people from organized religions and the supernatural.

We do not want to slave us to those defective thinking systems.

Atheists are agreeing and that is why they are forming atheist churches.

They will likely start calling themselves Mystery Schools again, and they and Gnostic Christianity will be the future.

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 4:44 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 6:19 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 12 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 7:02 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2021 3:56 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 17 of 150 (890243)
12-30-2021 11:16 AM


Paul

"Read that as natures decree as it is a truth, or are you denying that men generally want a wife?

What I deny is the misogynistic nature of this very thought."

I see.

Wanting a mate/wife is somehow misogynistic to you.

Seems we have nowhere to go with Gnosticism, you do not want to understand, nor do we define words the same way.

As I said, I can get your kind of discussion/argument anywhere and I do not want it in this thread.

Too disruptive.

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by AZPaul3, posted 12-30-2021 11:45 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 18 of 150 (890245)
12-30-2021 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tangle
12-30-2021 3:56 AM


Re: Gnostic What?
Tangle

Wiki is wrong.

See how we think and thought like the brighter ancients.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

The Jesus Myth - Timothy Freke

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2021 3:56 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2021 11:28 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 20 of 150 (890247)
12-30-2021 11:30 AM


Paul

"But those who have been born in this way have denied the sharing which is the corollary of their origin and say Let him who has taken one woman keep her, whereas all can share her, just as the other animals show us.
Seriously, you cannot hold to this religious garbage. Do you?"

You think this our policy?

Where was such a thing ever a thing?

Do you think Gnostics really ignored that men want a wife to call his own?

Your little effort to understand is why we will not get far here.

But on a moral note, sharing a woman is more moral than being misogynous and lowering the worth of a human being.

Gnostic Christians are the good non-misogynous Christians.

Regards
DL


Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by PaulK, posted 12-30-2021 12:08 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 21 of 150 (890249)
12-30-2021 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tangle
12-30-2021 11:28 AM


Re: Gnostic What?
Tangle

Message 4 shows the god I know.

I do not push for veneration of any god concept, other than our own godlike individuality, and the Earth as our creator and sustainer.

If we do not start venerating the Earth, we will likely continue to foul our planet and go extinct.

"Are you saying that your form of Christianity is derived from the Old and New Testaments minus the miracles?"

Mostly the N.T. as we use Jesus' quotes. Rephrase.

We use the quotes put into the esoteric ecumenist Jesus archetype's mouth, while ignoring the immoral Roman created, Armageddon yielding genocidal Jesus.

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2021 11:28 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2021 11:42 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 25 by AZPaul3, posted 12-30-2021 1:49 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 26 of 150 (890262)
12-30-2021 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Tangle
12-30-2021 11:42 AM


Re: Gnostic What?
Tangle

More or less, but I have Gnosis.

Gnosis - The Secret of Solomon's Temple

Do you know what material dualism is?

Religion Has No Earthly Purpose, So Why Do We Cling to It? | Reza Aslan | Big Think

I think the main difference between us is that I speak for both my material side as well as my spiritual side. I listened to both and try to express their thinking.

I do not add woo or even like to tolerate it. I try to take it out by showing that nature holds all the answers and that they match Christianity, when the woo is taken out.

That is why the ancient intelligentsia were Gnostics, of all the various religions, and other guild formed Mystery Schools.

Atheists have finally caught up to Gnostic Christian ways, and that makes the world more free from the harms that the right wing religious do.

Logic and reason have won the God Wars.

Faith without facts has been destroyed by our educating our children better.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2021 11:42 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2021 4:56 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 27 of 150 (890263)
12-30-2021 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by AZPaul3
12-30-2021 11:45 AM


Paul.

"What is misogynistic is your view of women as mere animals to be used at mans pleasure."

You forgot that Gnostic Christians are universalists and have all people as equal.

Men are in the same boat.

What do you think we are all here for, if not to please each other?

Our selfish gene and DNA are forcing us to be good to each other.

Can you ignore your genetic programming?

The Golden Rule that guides us, ---- as well as our duty to family, ---- says that pleasure/circuses and bread are to be a persons two main focus.

Further, ignoring that full equality we honor, - --- and given that we think real men will always put women and children first, --- Gnostic Christian men, what we think of as real men of course, will honor that duty as well.

Others will join the Captain Coward Club.

To the rest of your post.

I do not sell a faith. Faith without facts is for fools.

Gnostics live on what is known or can be inferred.

Go back to post 4 and tell me what I call my God and why.

If you cannot understand those words and how they pertain to the supernatural, what can I say.

My highest ideal for a god is me. Who is yours?

If you want to understand a thing, you have to answer my questions so that I can keep you on track.

Opinions are legion.

Clear questioning, is what I seek.

Your answers to my questions, clears up yours.

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by AZPaul3, posted 12-30-2021 11:45 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 28 of 150 (890265)
12-30-2021 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by PaulK
12-30-2021 12:08 PM


Paul

Read my last to another Paol, and I think you will see that it is all a communal ownership of all men and women that is implied, and to Christians, that full sharing is called Heaven.

No Gnostic community ever tried it, because it would have killed our parenting instincts, that urge us to protect family and kin over strangers.

That train scenario is great to show how, morally, we should choose to save the many instead of the few.

Now put your wife and family on one of the tracks.

???

I agree that misogyny, and let me add homophobia, have been religions longest running victims of discrimination without a just cause.

Given that Christianity has lost it's way and now follow evil, it is good that it is dying.

All the supernatural believing religions should be banned as teaching lies to children should be discourage with great penalties.

Especially now that we all enjoy secular laws of equality; we should not have to tolerate and subsidize religions that preach directly against the law of the land.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by PaulK, posted 12-30-2021 12:08 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by PaulK, posted 12-30-2021 4:15 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 29 of 150 (890266)
12-30-2021 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by AZPaul3
12-30-2021 1:49 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
AZPaul3

Ah. A Cafeteria Atheist.

You have to many wrong opinion and like putting words into my mouth that I have to refute as long as you are.

You get one polite question at a time, or go way before my bully side tells you to fuck off.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by AZPaul3, posted 12-30-2021 1:49 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by AZPaul3, posted 12-30-2021 3:46 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1538
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 35 of 150 (890286)
12-31-2021 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by AZPaul3
12-30-2021 3:46 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
"Ahh, touchy. Hit a nerve. Good."

Yes. Now you know I do not suffer fools well.

-----

"If there is no god in your creed then I question your use of the Christian label.

There is a Gog in my creed.

Did you get where we name God I am, and mean ourselves?

Who rules you if not yourself?

God is the best rules and laws that you can live by, and you are the only one who can decide that at any given point in time.

Step up to what you are. God.

IOWs, a full adult, in control of yourself, without stupid supernatural beliefs, or need to look in a book for proper moral ethics.

-------

"How can there be Christianity without the Abrahamic god?"

As to the Abrahamic God, Yahweh, I am not sure that the Christian Trinity is Yahweh.

The Abrahamic Yahweh was androgynous, with male and female characteristics.

A Twonity; not a Trinity.

A strange twist is that if Jesus was born of a virgin, Jesus would have been female all his life. That is straight from the religious right.

They have to ignore themselves to believe.

I think Gnostics kept the Christian in their designation because we owe Christianity for giving us our moral sense, and allows us to venerate the Chrestians that I think helped create us.

A lot of their thinking was taken into Christianity even as they went for a human god to their supernatural evil god, Yahweh/Jesus.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 12-31-2021 1:14 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 48 by Percy, posted 01-02-2022 9:28 AM Greatest I am has replied
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