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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
Phat
Member
Posts: 15935
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 571 of 767 (890264)
12-30-2021 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 567 by AZPaul3
12-29-2021 11:29 PM


Re: Onward Secular Soldiers!
Your whole plan to throw religion away and push it out of public education and speech would be agreeable to me if God did NOT exist. Until I become convinced of that, we will continue to disagree.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 567 by AZPaul3, posted 12-29-2021 11:29 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 572 by AZPaul3, posted 12-30-2021 3:35 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 574 by Percy, posted 12-31-2021 9:56 AM Phat has seen this message
 Message 575 by dwise1, posted 12-31-2021 10:58 AM Phat has taken no action

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6636
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 572 of 767 (890267)
12-30-2021 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 571 by Phat
12-30-2021 3:23 PM


Re: Onward Secular Soldiers!
And thus the world goes around.

When you decide to come over to the dark side, Phat man, I'll be here to help escort you over. I've been holding these tickets to the annual baby eating dinner for you. The dinner rolls are just heavenly.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Phat, posted 12-30-2021 3:23 PM Phat has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15935
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 573 of 767 (890268)
12-30-2021 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 570 by ringo
12-30-2021 11:19 AM


Re: The Cult of "What's in it for ME?" Christianity as found in Phat.
Nobody's "forcing" you to give up your beliefs. They're not even asking you to give up your beliefs. They're asking you to pay your debts.
I owe no debts. No mortgage was ever signed. The Fed may someday lay claim to all of our debts, but we signed nothing and they are the ones who printed all the extra money. If the government can determine and agree to debts that it owes, that's not my concern. I pay my taxes. I won't pay my great grandfather's back taxes after he passed 100 years ago.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 570 by ringo, posted 12-30-2021 11:19 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 582 by ringo, posted 01-10-2022 10:57 AM Phat has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20753
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 574 of 767 (890279)
12-31-2021 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Phat
12-30-2021 3:23 PM


Re: Onward Secular Soldiers!
I think you must need the eggs.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Phat, posted 12-30-2021 3:23 PM Phat has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 576 by xongsmith, posted 12-31-2021 7:43 PM Percy has seen this message

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5067
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 575 of 767 (890280)
12-31-2021 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Phat
12-30-2021 3:23 PM


Re: Onward Secular Soldiers!
My emphasis added:
Your whole plan to throw religion away and push it out of public education and speech would be agreeable to me if God did NOT exist.

Uh, what? What exactly are you talking about there?

Are you joining EWolf in calling for the government to mandate religious indoctrination in the public schools? Knowing that that would require the government to choose which religion that indoctrination would be in? And that it would be in spite of and most often contrary to the parents'?

So despite your very recent proclamation in Message 562, "I believe that the rights of the family supersede the rights of government.", you now want to advocate government power taking precedence over one of the most personal of family rights, the right to choose the faith in which to raise their children?

What are you thinking? Please be very specific!

... if God did NOT exist.

What the hell has that ever had to do with religion?

Religions exist and have their characteristics completely independent of the existence of any gods.

You got a lot of 'spainin' to do!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Phat, posted 12-30-2021 3:23 PM Phat has taken no action

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2207
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 576 of 767 (890307)
12-31-2021 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 574 by Percy
12-31-2021 9:56 AM


Re: Onward Secular Soldiers!
Percy writes:
I think you must need the eggs.

Marvelous tie-in to the ending of Annie Hall!!


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 574 by Percy, posted 12-31-2021 9:56 AM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20753
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 577 of 767 (890341)
01-02-2022 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 558 by Phat
12-29-2021 9:32 AM


Re: George Wallace wins 90% of the black vote! Fiction?
You are too much an idiot these days for an intelligent exchange to develop out of this, but you have to be called on it.

Phat writes:

What are you implying?

"Implying" is far to mild a word for what I'm doing. I'm flat out calling you a racist.

It's not a racial issue.

Reparations for years of exploitation and discrimination at the hands of racism is not a racial issue? Really?

Tbe race card is overused and excessive.

Racists being called on their racism frequently complain that the race card is being played. Just to help you comprehend the absurdity of your position, if you were doing this back in the 1950's, you'd accuse those complaining about blacks being thrown off white lunch counters of playing the race card.

That expressions of racism today are often different and more subtle does not mean it's not racism.

I'm not out to exploit anyone nor be exploited.

The falseness of your denials is obvious. You've developed an irrational paranoid fear of being exploited and are supporting policies that you believe guarantee anyone but you (usually those least able to defend themselves politically like minorities and immigrants) will be exploited.

The reality has been explained to you many times, to no avail. Just stick to buying your fool's gold - it does the least harm to the country.

It's ironic that the political and religious beliefs you've combined guarantee you'll end up in hell.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by Phat, posted 12-29-2021 9:32 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 578 by Phat, posted 01-04-2022 4:25 PM Percy has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15935
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 578 of 767 (890372)
01-04-2022 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 577 by Percy
01-02-2022 10:34 AM


Your Accusations May Be Close
So I saw this article and thought again about what you said in this post.

I don't like the implications but I find it hard to honestly deny them.

I feel like the one who is always stepping on people's toes and having to continually apologize and humble myself. I perceive the "woke" people as overreacting in the opposite way. For years, entitlement was my life. Finally, when I saw it as wrong, the once downtrodden people took it up and slap me in the face with it. If I can lay it down, why must they pick it up? (To accentuate a Republican Pun, I am the elephant in the room.) I fight being made to feel inferior, guilty, and responsible. I just want the same rights everyone else has. you might argue that they want the rights and privileges that I took for granted all my life. Two wrongs dont make a right, however. If I lay down my aura of privilege, NOBODY else should be allowed to pick it up. Why am I racist?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 577 by Percy, posted 01-02-2022 10:34 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 579 by nwr, posted 01-04-2022 5:10 PM Phat has taken no action
 Message 580 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-04-2022 5:52 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 581 by Percy, posted 01-05-2022 12:17 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 584 by ringo, posted 01-10-2022 11:11 AM Phat has seen this message

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5971
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 579 of 767 (890373)
01-04-2022 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 578 by Phat
01-04-2022 4:25 PM


Re: Your Accusations May Be Close
I feel like the one who is always stepping on people's toes and having to continually apologize and humble myself.

As a Christian, shouldn't you be naturally humble?

If I can lay it down, why must they pick it up?

You have not shown that you can lay it down.

I fight being made to feel inferior, guilty, and responsible.

This is what I have trouble understanding.

Yes, indigent Americans were badly mistreated. So were indigent Australians (that's where I grew up). And so were the slaves brought to America.

I have never felt inferior or guilty or personally responsible about this. Yet I recognize that American society has a debt to repay to those who were harmed. And I have no problem with the idea that some of the taxes that I pay are used for this compensation.

You claim you are made to feel guilty, yet you are unwilling to do anything to correct the injustice. Why is that?


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 578 by Phat, posted 01-04-2022 4:25 PM Phat has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3291
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(3)
Message 580 of 767 (890374)
01-04-2022 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 578 by Phat
01-04-2022 4:25 PM


Re: Your Accusations May Be Close
I fight being made to feel inferior, guilty, and responsible.

It looks to me like you are the one making yourself feel that way, and because of made up bullshit issues, for fucksake!

The assholes you read and listen to have you all pumped up and indignant about made up bullshit issues while they palm the pea and send you out as a distraction. You are absolutely the best sort of con victim.

I feel like the one who is always stepping on people's toes and having to continually apologize and humble myself.

Well, I don't recall seeing a sincere apology from you for anything, and you have never seemed like a humble Christian to me.

Why am I racist?

It looks like hate and fear to me.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 578 by Phat, posted 01-04-2022 4:25 PM Phat has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20753
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 581 of 767 (890386)
01-05-2022 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 578 by Phat
01-04-2022 4:25 PM


Re: Your Accusations May Be Close
Phat writes:

So I saw this article and thought again about what you said in this post.

I had a different reaction than nwr and Tanypteryx: once again you present a video and don't describe a nit of what it says. Not watching it, and especially not watching 17 minute videos. The time it takes a kitten to fall off a sofa, that's my length limit on videos.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 578 by Phat, posted 01-04-2022 4:25 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 582 of 767 (890717)
01-10-2022 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 573 by Phat
12-30-2021 3:40 PM


Re: The Cult of "What's in it for ME?" Christianity as found in Phat.
Phat writes:

I owe no debts.


Let's walk through it again: Your predecessors owned slaves. They obtained work from their slaves and didn't pay for it. They certainly owed a moral debt to their slaves. And you inherited the benefits of slave labor. So how do you not owe a moral debt for your inheritance? Try to actually answer the question instead of just deny, deny, denying.

Phat writes:

No mortgage was ever signed.


Do you not understand what MORAL means? You owe what you owe, whether papers were signed or not. And by the way, the slaves couldn't sign papers because they weren't considered people. You might as well talk about asking your lawnmower to sign a contract.

Phat writes:

If the government can determine and agree to debts that it owes, that's not my concern. I pay my taxes.


You contradict yourself. If the government decides to pay the collective "white debt" then it's your taxes that will pay it.

Phat writes:

I won't pay my great grandfather's back taxes after he passed 100 years ago.


It makes no difference how long ago he died. Any debts attached to his estate have to be paid by his beneficiaries. If you don't pay the debts, you're not entitled to the estate.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 573 by Phat, posted 12-30-2021 3:40 PM Phat has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 583 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 11:11 AM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33891
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 583 of 767 (890720)
01-10-2022 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 582 by ringo
01-10-2022 10:57 AM


Re: The Cult of "What's in it for ME?" Christianity as found in Phat.
Remember that Phat used bankruptcy to get out of paying his debts.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 582 by ringo, posted 01-10-2022 10:57 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 585 by ringo, posted 01-10-2022 11:13 AM jar has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 584 of 767 (890721)
01-10-2022 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 578 by Phat
01-04-2022 4:25 PM


Re: Your Accusations May Be Close
Phat writes:

I feel like the one who is always stepping on people's toes and having to continually apologize and humble myself.


As you may know, in Canada we're going through a reconciliation process with our indigenous people. I expect it to take at least a generation (as the children of Israel had to wander in the wilderness for forty years until all of the older generation died off.)

One indigenous lady about our age said, "If you step on my foot, I appreciate your apology - but you have to get off my foot."

Apologies are empty. If you do something wrong, step one is to stop doing it. Then you can try to repair the damage you've done.

Phat writes:

Two wrongs dont make a right, however.


There aren't two wrongs here. There's one wrong and you're trying to invoke a statute of limitations on repairing the damage.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 578 by Phat, posted 01-04-2022 4:25 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 585 of 767 (890722)
01-10-2022 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 583 by jar
01-10-2022 11:11 AM


Re: The Cult of "What's in it for ME?" Christianity as found in Phat.
Phat writes:

Remember that Phat used bankruptcy to get out of paying his debts.


Inability to pay is a valid excuse. Unwillingness to pay is not.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 583 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 11:11 AM jar has taken no action

  
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