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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 271 of 513 (890561)
01-08-2022 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by drlove
01-08-2022 12:25 AM


Re: belief in the method
If one applies beliefs in a systematic way to evidences, then that is a perfect use of the word. Maybe quit the pretense of being some word scholar as well.
I didn't ask you to use systematic in a garbled sentence, I asked you to define it since you claimed to be using systematics.
Can you give some examples of applying beliefs in a systematic way to evidences?
I don't need to be a word scholar to ask you what some of the words that you are using mean. You don't seem to know what they mean and you use them in such odd ways when you are talking about science that makes it really, really look like you don't know jack shit about science.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 12:25 AM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 3:04 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 272 of 513 (890562)
01-08-2022 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Tanypteryx
01-08-2022 12:54 AM


Re: belief in the method
Show me the post where I claimed to be using 'systematics'? Ha There you go abusing language again by uttering the word science. You have not defined it, nor shown any instance it is used, and have ignored the instances I mentioned where spokesmen for medical science systematically disagree based on the same science and data! Then one side accuses the other of being anti science! No one needs to use words in a way that is restricted to your belief system and misconceptions!
Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 12:54 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 10:49 AM drlove has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 273 of 513 (890563)
01-08-2022 3:14 AM


So what we have here is an anti-vax troll spreading lies and refusing to answer challenges.
It's always a puzzle what to do about the religious deluded, but they are at least mostly harmless. This ignoramus is one of the deluded dangerous, and appears to be part of the anti-vax, anti-science propaganda campaign.
Obviously, we're not going to get any sense out of him, the question is whether it's worth continuing to poke at him for entertainment value?
I suppose that while he's distracted here with his two line posts that are only going to amuse us, he isn't doing any real harm elsewhere.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by vimesey, posted 01-08-2022 8:09 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 276 by AZPaul3, posted 01-08-2022 9:45 AM Tangle has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 274 of 513 (890564)
01-08-2022 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Tangle
01-08-2022 3:14 AM


Looking at his frequent Engliah grammar mistakes, one guess would be that a Russian bot farm is using EvC as a training ground for their apprentice farmers. I assume he gets his vodka ration withheld for each mistake made. Once he gets better, they'll move him on to QAnon and similar, and we won't hear from him again (though he may get replaced by a new apprentice).

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2022 3:14 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2022 9:38 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 281 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 11:06 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 275 of 513 (890565)
01-08-2022 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by vimesey
01-08-2022 8:09 AM


Speaking of QAnon
quote:
A leading figure in the QAnon conspiracy movement who said that only “idiots” get vaccinated has died of Covid-19.
Oops. It seems that the virus doesn't care what you believe
Prominent QAnon conspiracy theorist dies from Covid after saying only ‘idiots’ get vaccinated

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by vimesey, posted 01-08-2022 8:09 AM vimesey has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 276 of 513 (890566)
01-08-2022 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Tangle
01-08-2022 3:14 AM


Pugilistic Exercise.
Obviously, we're not going to get any sense out of him, the question is whether it's worth continuing to poke at him for entertainment value?
Only if we are vigilant and call out each of his lies and twisted half-truths which he/she/it spews with every post.
An issue is whether this Goebbels-ian poison is most effective in its repetition since its truth value is nil. The old story used to be that your best counter to bullshit was exposure in the marketplace of ideas relying on broader human intellect to prevail.
I don't see that happening. I see the tsunami of repetition, this present fool being a wavelet in that effort, beginning to dominate the conversation.
But they are out there now poisoning society and must be dealt with. The Nazis are coming. The brownshirts, like this idiot whether a foreign operative or not, are with us now.
The only thing we have is the truth.
But the truth does not need to be applied lightly, sans ridicule, sans punch in the face so, yeah, we should probably continue to poke, jab, slug, punch him in the nose, step on his face not so much for entertainment value as for self preservation.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2022 3:14 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 277 of 513 (890567)
01-08-2022 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by drlove
01-07-2022 5:22 PM


Thank you for the summary.
If you have concerns or complaints about other members or about moderation they should taken to the Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0 thread and leave this thread to focus on its topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by drlove, posted 01-07-2022 5:22 PM drlove has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 278 of 513 (890568)
01-08-2022 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by drlove
01-08-2022 12:22 AM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
drlove writes:
I did bring up the field of medical science and a few doctors representing that.
Checking all your posts where the word "doctor" or "doctors" appears, you mentioned only a single doctor, Dr. Robert Malone. It might be helpful if you were specific about the other doctors you're thinking of, since Dr. Malone has been pretty thorough in trashing his reputation.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 12:22 AM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 1:46 PM Admin has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 279 of 513 (890569)
01-08-2022 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by drlove
01-08-2022 12:28 AM


There you go abusing the language again with the word reputable.
And there you go spreading more alternate facts.
You do not get to say what we accept or believe, or what has a reputation.
I didn't say anything about what you accept or believe. I said they have not been published in a single reputable medical journal.
You merely choose one side you want to believe.
Really? How are you going to enforce that, have a tantrum?
You came here to try and convince us of something, but so far all we have seen is obvious lies and misinformation.
The article did cite 150 studies.
And the article you cited was completely bogus. There were no studies. Not a single one.
If you want to go through each and show how it is some sort of con job, feel free.
Oh, there's no need because none of those studies exist. The article you cited was total bullshit. Your critical thinking skills suck.
Empty claims that they are no good is nothing more than hand waving of course.
And I note that you have not cited a single actual scientific study about face masks published in any medical journal. You're doing a really crappy job at convincing us that you are anything but a disinformation troll.
In some places the majority of people getting sick are the vaccinated.
More alternate facts, show us your evidence.
In your standard, apparently they are endangering lives!
You just can't help but twist things around can you, are you daft?
There are folks on the other side of the issue who claim that the system that disallowed life saving alternative and early treatments are actual murderers.
Those folks are idiots spreading alternate facts.No one is stopping you from drinking all the bleach you want.
There is also some who suspect that the vaccines may weaken immunity and be dangerous.
And they have no evidence to support their suspicions.
It is also known that the vaccinated spread the sickness.
Not because of the vaccine. They are contagious because they were exposed to Covid by an idiot like you without a mask and they got a breakthrough infection.
So no one needs your ones sided rude and ignorant accusations, thanks.
Hey, you're the one who came here to try and convince us that you know something, but it turns out to be nothing but anti-science misinformation. Good job!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 12:28 AM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 1:51 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 280 of 513 (890570)
01-08-2022 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by drlove
01-08-2022 3:04 AM


Re: belief in the method
Show me the post where I claimed to be using 'systematics'? Ha
Message 266
drlove writes:
If one applies beliefs in a systematic way to evidences, then that is a perfect use of the word.
There you go abusing language again by uttering the word science.
You seem to have the mistaken opinion that you have control over the words other people use, or can twist their meanings.
You have not defined it, nor shown any instance it is used
Nor have you.
and have ignored the instances I mentioned where spokesmen for medical science systematically disagree based on the same science and data!
Yep, because the "spokesmen" you mentioned are not using the same science and data. They are using fraudulent data and speading misinformation and alternate facts.
Then one side accuses the other of being anti science!
Yep, the science side accuses the anti-science side of being the anti-science side.
No one needs to use words in a way that is restricted to your belief system and misconceptions!
Words have specific meanings and if you want to convince anyone that you know what you are talking about or that you have any valid points you have to use language in a way that actually communicate what you want to say.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 3:04 AM drlove has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 281 of 513 (890571)
01-08-2022 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by vimesey
01-08-2022 8:09 AM


Looking at his frequent Engliah grammar mistakes, one guess would be that a Russian bot farm is using EvC as a training ground for their apprentice farmers.
I always thought the Russian bots were more sophisticated and subtle. If this guy doesn't up his game Putin might put a little poison on his doorknob.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by vimesey, posted 01-08-2022 8:09 AM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 1:49 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 282 of 513 (890575)
01-08-2022 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Admin
01-08-2022 10:04 AM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
Proof that his reputation is 'trashed'? Other doctors? The Barrington declaration had many thousands of medical professionals. The ones who headed it up were well qualified also. There is also a Dr Zelenko who voices serious concerns. Dr. Peter McCullough as well. That was just a quick search. Then there are the doctors against the mandates. examples:
Alberta doctors challenging provincial health authority’s vaccine mandate - The Lawyer's Daily
An Infectious Disease Doctor Explains Why Some Of His Colleagues Are Quitting In The Face Of Vaccine Mandates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9W1DKLngLs
Calgary pediatricians criticized for letters opposing vaccine mandates | Calgary Herald
Of course I could go on all day with those. Then there are other health professionals such as nurses. Again, the list is staggering. I won't bother with these.
Then there is the issue of the science and the spokesmen for the other side of the opinion. One week masks are needed, the next, no masks, the next...etc.
So it is a matter of belief and opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Admin, posted 01-08-2022 10:04 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Admin, posted 01-08-2022 2:12 PM drlove has replied
 Message 286 by AZPaul3, posted 01-08-2022 2:14 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 283 of 513 (890576)
01-08-2022 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Tanypteryx
01-08-2022 11:06 AM


Strange denial. When unable to offer any support for your position you make up fairy tales. That is the modus operendi of some people. If I were to vote for Putin or Biden, I am not sure what I might choose. One thing I can say, it sure would not be the latter!
Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 11:06 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 2:14 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 284 of 513 (890577)
01-08-2022 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Tanypteryx
01-08-2022 10:19 AM


When truth will not be published in formerly reputable pubs they are no longer reputable!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 10:19 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 2:17 PM drlove has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 285 of 513 (890578)
01-08-2022 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by drlove
01-08-2022 1:46 PM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
Thank you for the additional information.
I'm not part of the discussion, just an admin. You can direct discussion related questions to me if you like, such as about my use of the word "trashed" in association with Dr. Malone's reputation, but I won't usually respond because the goal for moderators is to avoid becoming part the discussion.
Moderators try to be neutral, but they don't exist in a vacuum. They try to draw upon generally accepted information. For an obvious example, in a discussion where one of the participants is a neo-Nazi, moderators are not obliged to avoid mentioning Hitler's anti-semitism in the name of neutrality.
If you think a moderator has stepped outside acceptable bounds then the place to file complaints is the Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0 thread.
Edited by Admin, : Grammar.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 1:46 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 2:44 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
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