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Author Topic:   When Good Minds Go Bad
Percy
Member
Posts: 20985
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1 of 81 (890583)
01-08-2022 2:28 PM


I have a young relative whose mind has been taken over by Trumpism who keeps texting me his Trumpist beliefs and I don't know what to do. For a long while his texts on political matters were relatively infrequent and I paid little attention, but over the past couple months they've increased in frequency, so I have on occasion engaged with some of the things he's said, but for the most part he ignores what I say and just keeps sending more stuff. I think he's just browsing around Trump-supporting websites and Facebook and Twitter pages and posting stuff he finds to me.

He doesn't seem interested in discussion, so I thought I could make it stop by asking him to only send claims, links and videos he's interested in discussing, but that hasn't worked.

Here's a text he sent an hour or two ago. Any thoughts?

quote:
Becareful is you visit NYC. Armed Robery was just decriminized.

Can you explain why Pelosi appointed sargent at arms was told by pelosi to withhold capitol security communications leading up to jan 6th 2021. Why when President Trump offered national gaited to Washington it was refused. Why captital police ushered protestors into the capital while holding the door open for the protestors.

Do i need to send you video of this. It's been available online for over a year of you have not seen it on your curated news channels.

Paleosi premeditated and fabricated the issue in the capital building.

The fact Antifa were in the capital building yielding MAGA hats. In a crowd it only takes a few agitators to insight a riot.

The great scam. Just another leg of the Democrats atrocities.


--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2022 4:02 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 4:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8579
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2 of 81 (890608)
01-08-2022 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
01-08-2022 2:28 PM


My first reaction is 'oh fuck, sorry.'

I really don't know, it feels hopeless. It's a bloody epidemic of stupid and paranoia fed with a constant stream of nauseating lies and a new media mechanic that magnifies and targets the crap at unformed minds.

It's a different form of plague that we haven't got a vax for - apart from education.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 01-08-2022 2:28 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3437
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 3 of 81 (890610)
01-08-2022 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
01-08-2022 2:28 PM


Was he coherent before? This just seems horribly muddled thinking.

It's always been a complex issue, trying to deprogram someone who has been brainwashed by a cult.

I had to cut all contact with 4 cousins and their families back when the tea party movement began during the Obama presidency, because they became threatening and wouldn't stop sending me really offensive propaganda. My sister had to cut them off after Trump started campaigning. I can only imagine how nuts they are now.

I think we are completely and truly screwed because 75 million or so have joined the trump cult and most or all of them are armed!

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 01-08-2022 2:28 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by dwise1, posted 01-08-2022 4:40 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5199
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 4 of 81 (890615)
01-08-2022 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Tanypteryx
01-08-2022 4:05 PM


I think we are completely and truly screwed because 75 million or so have joined the trump cult and most or all of them are armed!

Statistics I've heard say that the number of privately owned guns in the USA far outnumber the country's entire population. And about a year ago there was a severe shortage of ammunition at the gun shops. Makes one wonder who all had engaged in that panic buying.

We hear descriptions of more rabid gun owners spending all evening caressing their favorites and talking to them by name. {shudder}

 

quote:
JAYNE:
Six men came to kill me one time, and the best of them carried this. It's a Callahan fullbore autolock, customized trigger and double cartridge thourough-gage.

It's my very favorite gun. ... This is the best gun made by man, and its got extreme sentimental value! ... I call it Vera.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 4:05 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20985
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 5 of 81 (890618)
01-08-2022 4:59 PM


Thanks for the responses. He's a pretty nice guy, average guy like all of us. I hope I don't have to cut off contact - close relative, happy history, strong affection and attachment.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2022 5:13 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 33 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 6:26 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8579
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 6 of 81 (890619)
01-08-2022 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Percy
01-08-2022 4:59 PM


I doubt there's much you can do but arguing with him will probably alienate him. The usual advice is just to listen without commitment or encouragement and wait for an opportunity to nudge.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Percy, posted 01-08-2022 4:59 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
LamarkNewAge 
Suspended Member (Idle past 58 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 7 of 81 (890620)
01-08-2022 6:32 PM


Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
The Evc crew & your friend are just about the same thing, imo.

I am watching this discussion.

(I never heard of a single claim your friend made,fyi, and I mean it)

I never heard of anyone saying what your friend said.

But engage the "discussion".

What is the most common source for these direct assertions?


Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2022 6:34 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 13 by dwise1, posted 01-08-2022 8:08 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
LamarkNewAge 
Suspended Member (Idle past 58 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 8 of 81 (890621)
01-08-2022 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by LamarkNewAge
01-08-2022 6:32 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
Then respond.

(I am assuming that there are "false flag" theories,right?)

I am hearing this for the first time, but my memory could be failing me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2022 6:32 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 6:51 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3437
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 9 of 81 (890623)
01-08-2022 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by LamarkNewAge
01-08-2022 6:34 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
You should seek professional help.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2022 6:34 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2022 7:54 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 11 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2022 7:59 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge 
Suspended Member (Idle past 58 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 10 of 81 (890626)
01-08-2022 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tanypteryx
01-08-2022 6:51 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
False Flags have been commonly seen as historical events, until the last 50 years.

(The last 45+ years, historically speaking, have seen false flags relegated to conspiracy lore - quote.)

So respond to them.

(Especially with a mouth like yours!)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 6:51 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 8:00 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge 
Suspended Member (Idle past 58 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 11 of 81 (890627)
01-08-2022 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tanypteryx
01-08-2022 6:51 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
What do you think of "Operation Gladio"?

Tonkin has been seen as the last verified "false flag" event.

(1964ish)

Gladio was more recent, but the exact details & scope are controversial.

Alex Jones said that a Bologna train blast was part of an attempt to hurt the powerful Italian Communist party, 40 years ago.

Communists were getting over 40% of the vote, in Italy. Powerful interests conspiratorially stopped them, with false flags.

I dont know what is true.

What do you know?

(You say you know "it all", of course)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 6:51 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3437
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 12 of 81 (890628)
01-08-2022 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by LamarkNewAge
01-08-2022 7:54 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
I have no idea what you are irrationally rambling about or why you are spewing it here. Like I said, you should seek professional help.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2022 7:54 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5199
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 13 of 81 (890629)
01-08-2022 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by LamarkNewAge
01-08-2022 6:32 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
The Evc crew & your friend are just about the same thing, imo.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Though by the "imo" you are boasting that you also have a rectum.

(I never heard of a single claim your friend made,fyi, and I mean it)

I never heard of anyone saying what your friend said.

How long have you been living in this news blackout? I'm sure that a lot of people would love to find a refuge from this past year's shit storm.

What is the most common source for these direct assertions?

Q, the GQP members of Congress, "conservative" talk shows, FOX News and the other far more radical ones that consider FOX to be filled with flaming radical liberals, etc.

My own son supported Trump -- he avoids conversations about it, so I don't know whether he's a Trump sheeple flocking to be fleeced over and over again. He refuses to be vaccinated for "scientific reasons" and insists that it's not political even though that's what's motivating this entire anti-vaccine nonsense. He lives in Florida now, having moved from being a cop in ND, so those facts are probably clues to his decline.

I would add that even my son tried to blame Antifa for the attack on the Capitol, but he then quickly backed off to "don't want to discuss this." It should also be noted that in the text messages from Sean Hannity to the White House begging Mark Meadows to get Trump to call off the attack, it was very clear that Hannity knew full well that the attack was by Trump supporters -- it's also quite clear that Hannity was well aware of the coup plan. And yet a few hours later Sean Hannity went on the air blaming Antifa for the violence, even though he knew better.

But engage the "discussion".

With a brainwashed cult member, discussion is virtually impossible. Try having a meaningful discussion with a creationist some time.

The only strategy for having a discussion would be to try to find some common ground, something you both agree on, and then follow lines of reasoning from there. Though that can blow up very quickly as I've witnessed taking that approach with creationists: they firmly believe that if their faith depends on their false claims being true, so if they were to realize that those claims are indeed false then that would destroy their faith and result in spiritual death, a fate worse than death for them. So the moment they start to reach that point, their defense mechanisms kick in causing them to, in some cases, totally freak out.

Taking the Antifa false-flag claim, for example, I would express my own sincerely held feelings: those who planned and launched the attack on the Capitol are traitors who should be swinging from the yardarm regardless of who they are. In reality, we will never see any of them swing (the conditions for an actual charge of treason, which include actually being in a declared war, would not be met -- the Law is a fickle dominatrix), but they all must be identified, their crimes against America determined and documented, hunted down, arrested, indicted, prosecuted, and dealt with according to the law. No exceptions, not even for one particular human-orangutan hybrid!

My son was a cop who answered an interview question by stating that he would arrest his own grandmother if she broke the law (kind of like legendary black deputy marshall Bass Reeves who hunted down and arrested his own son for murder; Bass Reeves was referred to in the first episode of HBO's Watchmen which started with a reenactment of the white mob annihilation of Tulsa's "Black Wall Street Massacre" of 1921, complete with a biplane dropping dynamite bombs on the community). I have very little doubt that he would agree with me about those attackers being traitors and what their fate should be. Maybe, if it were to come to a discussion between Percy and his young relative, they might also agree on that point.

Now, what do we do at this point? Well, if Antifa were involved, wouldn't we want to identify them, determine what they had done that would be considered criminal, track them down, arrest them, indict them, prosecute them, and execute their sentences? I would. I can only assume that my son, Percy, and his young relatative also would. Fine! So how do we do that?

First and foremost, we need to conduct a thorough investigation of that attack. I think that we would all agree, but then we have the GQP Congress. At every step of the way, the Republicans have steadfastly opposed and even worked against such an investigation. And they still do, even unto trying to obstruct the investigation in every manner possible.

Why? If Antifa and even elements of BLM (not Bureau of Land Management, even though Gohmert is still angry at them for not changing the earth's or moon's orbit in order to solve global warming) were actually involved in that heinous attack on our government, wouldn't the most devout opponents of those groups be chomping at the bit to finally bring them to justice and utterly destroy them? But they steadfastly refuse to. Why? Why not investigate and root out the traitors?

Oh, yeah, because the actual traitors are members of the GQP. They are just covering their asses, hoping to have been successful enough in fixing the next election to be able to regain a majority so that they can kill the investigation.

Though, if you are trying to deal with a family member whose bat quano blood levels are too elevated from all the Kool-Aid they've been swilling, their cult-member defense mechanisms would have already kicked in long ago.

Edited by dwise1, : Clean up in aisle 24. Some editing notes at the end that I hadn't cleaned up before posting. Sorry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2022 6:32 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 8:37 PM dwise1 has replied
 Message 16 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-09-2022 1:27 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3437
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 14 of 81 (890631)
01-08-2022 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by dwise1
01-08-2022 8:08 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
Wow, I understood and agree with every sentence in this post It must be the linguist in you, because I never can figure out what the hell LNA is yammering about.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by dwise1, posted 01-08-2022 8:08 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by dwise1, posted 01-09-2022 12:49 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5199
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 15 of 81 (890651)
01-09-2022 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tanypteryx
01-08-2022 8:37 PM


Re: Which reply "discussed" the assertions?
It's a bad habit of mine, trying to explain things to others. Sometimes I keep myself awake almost all night thinking through how to explain to others about electricity, how computers work (in tech school, we used to chase sparks through a computer CPU logic diagram, which I still have), evolution, stellar evolution (different subject despite what creationists claim), how the subjunctive mood works in romance languages, what the clutch does in a manual transmission (my ex returned with our son frustrated and furious about not being able to teach him how to drive a manual, so on the way to the mall parking lot I explained to him what the clutch did then once there I talked him through feeling the clutch engage, etc, and within 10 minutes he had it no problem), how to synchronize threads in multithreaded/multiprocess programming, various topics in math, various historic topics (eg, the sequence from Elizabeth I to the House of Windsor by way of the Jacobite rebellions), etc.

One night a friend (a dance buddy, part of a private joke between us playing on the term "f**k buddies" in that we weren't dating but rather using each other to practice dancing) asked me if I'm smart. I remember seeing a score on my jr high transcript of 130. She said that her brother was smart and it drove him crazy. I guess it's from the fact that our brains never stop. Elsewhere when I reported to a Navy computer center for my annual two weeks of active duty I assisted a resident DS setting something up during which we chatted casually. When he introduced me to the others in the shop he told them that I'm practicing for Jeopardy.

I like to think it's because I'm a chief petty officer for whom training is my primary job -- show me a chief who ignores training opportunities and I'll show you an E-7. But having studied and worked with other languages I've learned that talking slowly and very loudly does not make it easier for them to understand you, but rather you speaking more clearly does. Also my writing style has been influenced by German, which accounts for the long sentences (I was always taught that a sentence contains an entire thought, but German tends to pack a helluva lot more into a single thought).

 
ABE:

For one thing, I was very heavily alienated and unsocialized in high school but I also read a lot, so my speech tends to be rather bookish. And my writing reflects my manner of speech.

Also, doses of tequila makes me much more lucid ... until I start to overdose. That would also explain my lack of judgement in replying to a LNA message {grin}.

Edited by dwise1, : ABE

Edited by dwise1, : forgot to add the "ABE" label. sorry


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-08-2022 8:37 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
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