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Author | Topic: Belief Versus The Scientific Method | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
drlove Member (Idle past 819 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
That depends on who is looking at the data and how.
That applies to other branches of science as well. Edited by drlove, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I don't care about your cherry picked misleading tripe. The CDC's assessment that the vaccines work is good enough proof of their efficacy.
Add European Union to those opposing your bullshit. Covid-19 vaccine sceptics slammed across Europe as Omicron rages | The Straits Times Again with the lies. Do you ever stop being this dumb?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
That depends on who is looking at the data and how. And if there are questions among a majority of the experts then the science is not settled. When the science is settled as it is with anthropic global warming then attempting to deny that settled science is just plain stupid. You obviously fit the bill.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Sorry. With Omicron the vaccines might as well be sugar pills. Because we did not contain and mitigate the virus from the start! Give a virus fertile populations within which to propagate end evolve and you will get variants that can circumvent all our best efforts. So who's to blame? The scientists and public health officials trying to contain and control the disease? Or the fucking stupid idiots who do their best to improve the virus' chances of evolving into ever better variants to defeat our best efforts against them?
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drlove Member (Idle past 819 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
So you pick links that support one side of the issue. I can pick thousands of links that support the other side. The problem is that it is supposed to be a matter of medical science. It is only about belief. That principle applies to some other facets of science as well. Belief very much enters into interpreting the data. Can you admit that much?
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drlove Member (Idle past 819 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
quote: Now you appeal to the majority rather than fact and the scientific method. Nothing is settled.
quote:In what way is it settled? The fact climate is changing, or that it seems man is impacting in some way the changes? That is not what matters. Now when you offer trends in weather that you date over great time, that is belief based. When you predict the future and how it will change that is belief based. If all you are talking about is fairly short term changes in the last few hundred years or something, well, that may be another story. So using a broad and misused term like climate change is really useless. Did Al Gore's prophesies come true? If you want to discuss some specific aspect of the sciences that deal in weather and trends and etc well, probably that is another thread. This thread seems to be about belief as it relates to the scientific method.
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drlove Member (Idle past 819 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
quote:It is a matter of belief as to who is to blame. Some suggest the omicron variant started with vaccinated people and could be partially a result of the vaccination! First known U.S. Omicron case found in fully vaccinated overseas traveler | Reuters First Omicron case reported in Ireland, variant found in person back from southern Africa | Rest of the World News Coronavirus: Six cases of Omicron variant detected in Scotland – The Irish Times etc etc. As we know vaccinations are required for travel. Who really knows? Could natural immunity be better? Could people naturally immune fare better than the overly vaxxed people? It is all a matter of belief. Where is the facts and science based on testing and repeating and etc? As mentioned the ones involved in the vaccine agenda (lockdowns,mandates,endless boosters, etc) have tried to hide the test results for a lifetime! Is that science in your mind? They also demanded total immunity from prosecution for the deaths and serious injuries they knew would come! Is that science? I will point out that those who scream against people who chose to not believe blindly and obey do appear to me to be very religious! Edited by drlove, : No reason given.Edited by drlove, : No reason given. Edited by drlove, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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It is a matter of fact rather than belief that the fault lies totally and completely with the unvaccinated.
Those who refuse to get vaccinated and are eligible to get vaccinated are quite simply nothing but mutation factories. They should have every right to not get vaccinated but if they decide not to get vaccinated then they should not be allowed into the general population.My Website: My Website
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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So you pick links that support one side of the issue. I can pick thousands of links that support the other side. Issue here is my link was about the science of vaccines and the physical harm you anti-human bastards are causing by being stupid and spreading the disease. Your links, and, no, I don't care how many you and your masters care to fake up here, are political screeds meant to obscure reality.
The problem is that it is supposed to be a matter of medical science. Which it is but you cannot admit it since the science not only says you are wrong but you are fucking stupid.
Belief very much enters into interpreting the data. Can you admit that much? Every real scientist understands bias in the collection and analysis of data. That is why the protocols of real, actual, scientific study are so strict on methodology. And since we know humans are fallible and (as you show with your sources) dumb as a bag of rocks there is the requirement for a scientist to open the kimono and show all, the methods, the raw data, the analysis and the conclusions. Your side doesn't do any of that. You idiots don't do science. Science is what the consensus of the knowledge experts agree is shown from the facts. And the vast majority of the real immunologists the world over are telling you your anti-vaxx bullshit is not only wrong but is dangerous. Your anti-vaxx, anti-mask, anti-humane views are known by the real, actual, scientific community to be wrong, dangerous and just plain stupid. Can you admit that much?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Now you appeal to the majority rather than fact and the scientific method. God you are so ignorant. How do you think we know whether you’ve done science properly or not? Just take your word for it? How do we know these "facts" you say you uncovered are real? Here you are trying to destroy science and you don’t even know what it is, how it works in this species. You’re an idiot. We have knowledge experts look at what you did. Peer review. They will tear into the very bowels of your methods, data collection, analysis, conclusions to determine if you have done the science right. Then we have other groups of knowledge experts scrutinize the work of the reviewers. If the consensus among all these experts, those scientists that actually work and study in that field (not internet mis-educated politically motivated nazi wannabes like you and your handlers), if that consensus of the experts concludes the science is acceptable then your conclusions are tentatively accepted and the data, the facts and conclusions are used to predict future outcomes. Yeah, bunches of real scientists, acknowledged by their peers as experts in the field, determine whether your science is good or crap. And they do so by consensus, by the voice of thousands worldwide. You got some kind of problem with that, numbnut? Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Admin Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Someone argued that providing links didn't mean much because others could find links arguing the opposite. This is a very astute argument, and the issue was long ago institutionalized in the Forum Guidelines:
It might be helpful if someone explained some things about vaccine and covid:
I am placing the onus of proof on those who believe in vaccines. If they work and are effective, then the evidence should be out there. For an example of what I don't think is proof or effective argument, referencing Fauci saying, "We know the vaccines work," isn't an approach that I view as appropriate. This is an example of the fallacy of argument from authority. Please avoid this and other obvious fallacies. Please use facts, evidence, reason and argumentation, and only use links as supporting references. We try to discourage "argument via link" here.
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Admin Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
AZPaul3 writes: God you are so ignorant. I'd like to ask you to back off a little more. Whether your assessment carries any truth should become apparent through your argumentation. The last part of rule 10 of the Forum Guidelines applies here:
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Here is a study, updated as recently as December 27, 2021, of the death rates between the vaccinated and unvaccinated by nation. It also includes an explanation of why the rate rather than absolute number is both relevant and essential.
The conclusion based on actual data is that vaccinated or un-vaccinated is the single biggest determinate between the two datasets. And here is a study from August 31, 2021 that shows that hospitalization are also far higher in unvaccinated populations than vaccinated. These are not matters of belief but rather cold hard facts, commonly referred to as REALITY. Edited by jar, : fix quoteboxes.My Website: My Website
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Seriously? At this point in the game do we really need to provide this forum with evidence of the obvious?
If I'm talking about the JWST flying out to L2 do I really need to debunk flat-Earth theory first? Because of the hyper activity on this subject all over the planet vaccine effectiveness has been documented not just in scientific studies but in news media around the world and has been known for quite some time now. It should be an axiom not up for debate, especially in response to idiots who wouldn't acknowledge the data anyway. But if you insist: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2110605 An early editorial about studies on the covid-19 vaccines, effectiveness and public policy in NEJM. Peer reviewed. Verified. Actual real conclusions on effectiveness.
quote: And here is one early study on the effectiveness of available vaccines on the Omicron variant in South Africa. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270
quote: Others can slog through providing additional cites chapter and verse if necessary. The evidence of effectiveness has been provided, is known, has been known and should not be an issue in these discussions.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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An important point is that people are free to believe or not-believe the data.
But believe or not-believe does not change the facts, the reality, the data or the death and hospitalization rates. Reality always wins. The bill always gets paid. The willfully stupid people that do not get vaccinated endanger all of us but most likely we will do fine while they will simply be dead.
NMP Edited by jar, : -sMy Website: My Website
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