Belief Versus The Scientific Method

The reasoned argument is that in the example of medical science, there are different opinions and beliefs on some issues. That tells us that belief is involved, whatever side of the coin you may prefer.

Yep, and I have not seen a single scientist claim vaccines are the only way out of the Covid pandemic. Effective masks, isolation, rapid testing and sanitary practices along with vaccines are all part of the strategy.

Sorry but that statement simply shows that you really don't know what evidence is.Belief or non-belief does not change the actual data or reality and ALL of the data actually shows that vaccines work, and stupidity doesn't.

And that's why science demands evidence, so we don't make stupid decisions based on beliefs and opinions.

That does not resemble anything Theo said.

You seem to think that all opinion and all science is equal and all can be dealt with by simply posting a link, seemingly to stuff you haven't actually read.I read a few of the papers in your '150 studies show masks are ineffective, harmful'. None of them said anything as definitive as that and a few actually contradicted the claim. Some were just irrelevant. Basically, it was just a bunch of randomly selected papers that your man thought might help his half-arsed argument. He made no attempt to balance; no attempt to find papers that didn't support his argument. No critical analysis at all - none. Despicable, biased, lying and a lazy. Not even science.Mask wearing is one of the least certain aspects of this epidemic. Personally I think it's pretty well balanced and that a lot of it may be just COVID theatre but in science terms it's still early days; we're still accumulation of knowledge. So the precautionary principle applies.I was relieved to see that most (of the ones I read anyway) were at least from reputable sources, though not many would be included in any meta-analysis being too small or two methodologically weak.How many have you read?But in this battle of links where you think all are equal, do we win if we can give you more than you can give us? You do accept that the overwhelming scientific consensus is in favour of vaccination?

How about in the US where they want it mandated? The Dr in charge says he represents science. He advocates for vaccines up the wazoo. They even want to stick it to children. Are you saying science is not with him? Or that it is? Or..?

If he can speak for himself maybe we will see.

Yet a quick search found this.
"Most blue surgical face masks used by many during the pandemic are not enough to avoid people from being infected with COVID-19, a Canadian study found. Even modest ventilation rates were found to provide about the same level of protection as the highest quality masks, the lead author noted.The study from the University of Waterloo in Canada "Most blue surgical masks ineffective against COVID-19 — Canada study - Juta MedicalBriefWhy would we take your word that you looked at the 150 studies? Or that masks (dirty or not, overused or not) work well?As I said, the science is not just one sided. It is a matter of belief.
example:"Majority of COVID ICU Admissions are Fully Vaccinated"Ontario: Majority of COVID ICU Admissions are Fully VaccinatedSo if a majority of both sick and ICU patients are vaccinated fully, how does that equate to science saying that the vaccines are the way the truth and the light?

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But in this battle of links where you think all are equal, do we win if we can give you more than you can give us? You do accept that the overwhelming scientific consensus is in favour of vaccination?

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I just showed a source that showed that vaccinated people are the majority sick and in ICU!There is no battle of links because all we needed to establish was that science is not clear on the major aspects of the covid agenda. That is not really debatable. Having voluminous sources and professionals and studies on both sides proves it is a matter of interpretation only.

ALL the data does nothing remotely similar to what you claim, as the last post I did here shows. The majority were vaccinated who were in ICU and sick! Why say things that are blatantly transparently false?

Well, even brushing over the name of the website/author you reference (Fomorian - which is a mythical Irish folklore beast - oh so very scientific), you clearly need to get your handler to teach you a little basic maths. What proportion of Ontario's population is fully vaccinated ?(Having found that out, see if you can guess what the next logical step is, when looking at the bald statistic of the number of people in ICU with Covid who are unvaccinated). It's pretty basic logic.

You found a link that you think supports your argument! Wow!I bet that if you tried again you could find one - or a few thousand - that did the opposite; have you ever tried that? Maybe looking at the whole of the science not just the bits that you like? Ok, so when presented with that piece of information what did you do next? Did you do any further research or consider why it might be correct and what it actually means? Or did you think, great, I can use that in my little campaign of ignorance?This is what honest people do, they think how can this statement…“ Ontario: Majority of COVID ICU Admissions are Fully Vaccinated
Fully vaccinated (137) now outnumber unvaccinated people (123) in ICU admissions for COVID19”… be compatible with proven science that the vaccine works? There must be something wrong somewhere.I know you don't want to know why it's a fully expected and fully predicted situation but I'm going to tell you anyway just so that when you repeat the it to others you'll know that you're deliberately lying to them.The first problem we have is that you have chosen a sample of 1. It's terrible science to take an individual measurement and project it into a general statement. Off hand I can think of a half dozen reasons why a single hospital might at any one time have an imbalance of vax to non-vax patients. But never mind that point.The real answer is pure arithmetic. Here are some real facts that you need in order to do the sums. This is UK data“[…] unvaccinated adults are as much as eight times more likely to be admitted to hospital than those who have been vaccinated and […] booster doses are 88% effective at preventing hospital admission.”
(The US number for the Delta variant was that the unvaccinated were 11 times more likely to die than the vaccinated.)
and“A separate report published by the UKHSA showed that, although unvaccinated individuals made up only a small proportion of the overall population, they accounted for 27% of those with a confirmed case of omicron admitted to hospital in England and for 39% in London.”You need a couple more numbers, the population of the country you're looking at (UK about 70m) and the proportion that are vaccinated (UK about 70%).When you do the actual work, you'll find that because the vaccine is not perfect a small percentage of the vaccinated will end up in hospital, and because a small percentage of a large number - like (70m x 0.7)- is still a large number there will be times when the vaccinated overtake the unvaccinated in hospital.It's just arithmetic. If more people are vaccinated than unvaccinated and if the vaccination is not 100% there will be a point where more vaccinated than unvaccinated will be in hospital.btw, the UK numbers for December 2021 are 61% of those in hospital are unvaccinated.Covid-19: Fact check—how many patients in hospital are unvaccinated? | The BMJCovid-19: Unvaccinated face 11 times risk of death from delta variant, CDC data show | The BMJEdited by Tangle, : No reason given.

LOLYou are not even capable of reading the article. It is an opinion piece and not backed up by hard data.The studies I provided you were data from all over the world.But please, continue to be willfully stupid.I'm vaccinated and will remain vaccinated. Your death or disability is simply NOT MY Problem.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

Took a break. It lasted a while.
Doing well. My COVID isolation ends tomorrow. Whole family tested positive Thankfully we are all vaccinated. Our 12 and 15-year-old boys were over it in a day. My wife and sister-in-law had what equated to a mild cold. I was a little worse, maybe mid-range cold. Then again I turn 60 this year and have a couple comorbidities.
Great expansion on the arguments I made. A key s that the anti-science crowd does not even understand what they do not know. That they think they can legitimately question the scientific experts is hubris and folly. Dunning-Kruger at it's ulitmate.