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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 361 of 513 (890747)
01-10-2022 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by drlove
01-09-2022 2:36 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
Please provide evidence of those that died from the vax. Please provide evidence for "millions that had bad effects" from the vaccine.
[qs]Some experts suggest that the actual number may be 20 times higher since true stats are not kept or available. Other estimates are that the numbers are at least 5 times higher.[qs]Source?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 2:36 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:06 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 362 of 513 (890749)
01-10-2022 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by drlove
01-09-2022 2:46 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
I say actual because it is commonly reported that the forms are not filled out, since they are time consuming and cumbersome.
Source
In some places it is admitted the majority of hospitalized are vaccinated.
Source?
You make a lot of claims. But as of yet I don't see any source or data for these claims.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 2:46 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:12 PM Theodoric has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 363 of 513 (890750)
01-10-2022 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 2:35 PM


Re: To question you must understand
Theo writes:
Our 12 and 15-year-old boys were over it in a day.
Amazing just what being young does.
Not too long ago I was watching the Little League Not-Quite-World Series for this year and the things those kids did diving for balls would have left me in bed for weeks. In bed after a team of medics stabilized all my joints and padded everything enough to get me to a bed.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:35 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 364 of 513 (890751)
01-10-2022 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by drlove
01-09-2022 2:56 PM


Do you have any sources for what you claim?
The concerns are the plethora of young atheletes dropping dead or having heart attacks mid game after having been vaccinated.
Source?
They also may note that there are endless booster shots being mandated and prepared, so that we know they basically don't really do much good.
Do you even know the basics of medicine and virology? Anything about evolution? The vaccines are working, that is why there is a need for new ones. As the virus changes protection wanes. It is that simple. I am just getting over COVID since I am vaxed and boosted it was very minor. People without the vaccine are more likely to die and/or have serious complications.
and there are people of science on both sides of the issue. You don't get to wave them all away and declare only those with your belief as 'true'.
And you don't get to make such claims without an actual source.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 2:56 PM drlove has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 365 of 513 (890752)
01-10-2022 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by drlove
01-09-2022 3:20 PM


Re: To question you must understand
Show us your facts. You have not shown anything so far. All you have done is rant, spout and hand wave. The hallmark of those that have no evidence. The sign of a troll.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:20 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:15 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 366 of 513 (890753)
01-10-2022 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Tanypteryx
01-09-2022 3:45 PM


Re: To question you must understand
When ya got nothing throw out a strawman.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-09-2022 3:45 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-10-2022 3:23 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 367 of 513 (890754)
01-10-2022 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by vimesey
01-10-2022 3:22 AM


Why debate the minutia rather than stick to the main principle here? The issue is that there are people, a whole lot of people and a lot of studies and etc that are on different sides of the matter. Both claim science. Both have stats and studies. So no one can say that science works here. Belief and interpretation are what is working.
On the issue of the vaxxed getting sick, here is a different link
"We already know vaccine protection against earlier variants of Sars-Cov-2 falls sharply within months of the second dose, as the vaccine-generated antibodies fade.
But the new data go a step further, showing that previously vaccinated people are actually more likely to contract Omicron"
Has Covid vaccine efficacy turned negative?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by vimesey, posted 01-10-2022 3:22 AM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:02 PM drlove has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 368 of 513 (890755)
01-10-2022 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by drlove
01-10-2022 1:35 AM


Re: To question you must understand
That is not at all what I said. You just thought you would make a strawman to knock down. More evidence you are dishonest and have no evidence for any of your claims.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 1:35 AM drlove has not replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 369 of 513 (890756)
01-10-2022 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by Tangle
01-10-2022 5:18 AM


Proving my point
quote:
I bet that if you tried again you could find one - or a few thousand - that did the opposite
My point, exactly. So either science is useless and can mean whatever we like, or it is subject to belief and interpretation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by Tangle, posted 01-10-2022 5:18 AM Tangle has not replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 370 of 513 (890757)
01-10-2022 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by jar
01-10-2022 7:48 AM


Am I the one shouting that you should be forced to go against your choice here? No. Most people I know are vaccinated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 7:48 AM jar has not replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 371 of 513 (890758)
01-10-2022 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Tanypteryx
01-10-2022 9:02 AM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
If you are saying that true people of science are not fanatics on one side of the issue, I would agree. However, both sides claim science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-10-2022 9:02 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-10-2022 3:36 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 372 of 513 (890759)
01-10-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 2:35 PM


Re: To question you must understand
There we go. Clear as a bell. You suggest one side is the anti science side. Sad.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:35 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:06 PM drlove has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 373 of 513 (890761)
01-10-2022 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by drlove
01-10-2022 2:52 PM


The issue is that there are people, a whole lot of people and a lot of studies and etc that are on different sides of the matter.
If so present them.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
Alex Berenson? Fucking Alex Berenson? Are you fucking serious?
He is an unmitigated, verified liar.
Wiki has sources pointing at his lies.
quote:
During the coronavirus pandemic, Berenson appeared frequently in American right-wing media, spreading false claims about COVID-19 and its vaccines.[2] He spent much of the pandemic arguing that its seriousness was overblown; once COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out, he made false claims about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.
Alex Berenson - Wikipedia

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:52 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:19 PM Theodoric has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 374 of 513 (890762)
01-10-2022 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 2:37 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
Since proper stats are not kept who has proof either way? Have you proof people are not dying from the vax? Did I not link a CDC based stat? I am not going to argue over how many more than the 100,000 actually had adverse effects here. It is a matter of belief only! You have no real stats on the matter since they are not kept. All the athletes dropping dead for example, did you think they are listed as vaccine deaths!?
1354 Athlete Cardiac Arrests, Serious Issues, 922 of Them Dead, Since COVID Injection - Real Science
!
Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:37 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:20 PM drlove has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 375 of 513 (890763)
01-10-2022 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by drlove
01-10-2022 2:59 PM


Re: To question you must understand
No, what is sad is your claim that actual scientists support your claims, but provide no facts, data, or sources to back your claim. Every time you do try to provide something you are shown why it is not what you claim it is.
You are willfully ignorant and seem to like it that way. Amazes me that you think your internet "research" gives you the authority to question the top virologists and epidemiologists in the world. The hubris is stunning.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:59 PM drlove has not replied

  
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