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Author Topic:   Do you have Questions for a Gnostic Christian?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 3 of 150 (890208)
12-29-2021 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
12-28-2021 3:44 PM


Gnostic What?
if anyone would like to know why we are called the only good Christians, ask way on any moral issue and find out.

Sure. I'd like that, but ...

Before getting into your gnostic views on moral issues I would like to know better your gnostic views of this “universalist thinking and naturalistic aspect of religion that Christianity abandoned for supernatural thinking.” What are you talking about? How could your religion not involve the supernatural?

Before I can listen to your views on morality I need to determine whether you are worth listening to.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 12-28-2021 3:44 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Greatest I am, posted 12-29-2021 3:22 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 5 by Greatest I am, posted 12-29-2021 3:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 6 by Greatest I am, posted 12-29-2021 3:36 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 9 of 150 (890217)
12-29-2021 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Greatest I am
12-29-2021 3:31 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
So you believe in a supernatural god.

From your citation:

quote:
The ideas of Mine and Thine crept in through the laws which cause the earth, money, and even marriage no longer to bring forth fruit of common use. For God made vines for all to use in common, since they do not refuse the sparrow or the thief; and similarly wheat and other fruits. But outlawed sharing and the vestiges of equality generated the thief of domestic animals and fruits. For man God made all things to be common property. He brought the female to be with the male in common and in the same way united all the animals. He thus showed rightousness to be a universal sharing along with equality. But those who have been born in this way have denied the sharing which is the corollary of their origin and say Let him who has taken one woman keep her, whereas all can share her, just as the other animals show us. With view to the permanence of the race, he has implanted in males a strong and ardent desire which neither law nor custom nor any other restraint is able to destroy. For it is God´s decree......

This is pure supernatural religious bullshit and morally questionable at best.

Reality is ruled by physics. If your philosophy relies on any violation of basic physical principles, such as the insistence on a supernatural being active in this universe, then your philosophy and its resultant moral doctrines are intellectually flawed.

We have tied the righteousness of god with equality and universalism.

You speak an article of faith. God is neither righteous nor existent. You have no reality from this universe upon which to justify such an aberration.

We do not live in your fantasy. We are real. If your mind is so set that thoughts of ghosts and gods are real to your mind, as gnostic as they may be, then you have lost view of reality and have fallen into fantasy. Since your personal religious fantasy informs your actions, your decisions then your morality is also based on your individual religious fantasy. Your fantasies cannot be trusted to speak to realistic human morality let alone apply such to any real human situation.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : reword.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Greatest I am, posted 12-29-2021 3:31 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 12-29-2021 5:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 11 of 150 (890221)
12-29-2021 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Greatest I am
12-29-2021 5:48 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
Message 4 shows my disdain for the supernatural.

We are the good Christians because we are not the dim ones who believe in the supernatural.

Then the cite you gave in your Message 5 was not indicative of Gnosticism? Why cite it?

And then in your Message 6 you go on how eve was right, and jesus did this and the bible says this and evil is good, etc.

quote:
This old O.P to a Christian will show my views.

------------
Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.


Do you believe Eve and the tree and god existed?

In your philosophy is there a god or not?

You can define god however you want, but if not a religious (supernatural) thing then please stop with the religious iconography in your language. It is not appropriate.

You almost sound like a secular humanist, which would be good, but then you insist on this religious overtone.

Are you religious, secular, something else?

If you want to instruct us on human morality then first identify yourself. Right now I'm confused.

And by the way, in my experience, the only good christian is one that is now atheist.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 12-29-2021 5:48 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 12 of 150 (890222)
12-29-2021 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Greatest I am
12-29-2021 5:48 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
“For it is God´s decree.....”

Read that as natures decree as it is a truth, or are you denying that men generally want a wife?

What I deny is the misogynistic nature of this very thought. Human sexual motivations are varied and cross all humanity. Male motivations are but one small aspect. You forget there is another human being involved, one whom your gnostic philosophy says should be shared just like the animals do.

quote:
But those who have been born in this way have denied the sharing which is the corollary of their origin and say Let him who has taken one woman keep her, whereas all can share her, just as the other animals show us.

Seriously, you cannot hold to this religious garbage. Do you?

You mentioned Joseph Campbell. You should read him some time. He takes your christian misogyny (from his own Buddhist-inspired Catholicism) and rips it to shreds.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 12-29-2021 5:48 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 12-29-2021 7:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 14 of 150 (890224)
12-29-2021 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
12-29-2021 7:09 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
We could do that. Just remember that anything I say here is context dependant and may change as my mood and drug level change.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 12-29-2021 7:09 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 12-29-2021 7:21 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 23 of 150 (890252)
12-30-2021 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Greatest I am
12-30-2021 11:16 AM


Wanting a mate/wife is somehow misogynistic to you.

No. What is misogynistic is your view of women as mere animals to be used at mans pleasure.

Seems we have nowhere to go with Gnosticism, you do not want to understand, nor do we define words the same way.

You haven't told us what your gnosticism entails. What is there to understand?

You give a site as reference then deny that it represents your views.

Does it involve a supernatural entity or not? You insist not but you then go on to craft religious assertions and speak constantly about god. I've asked before what your vision of god is. Your god of Message 4 is not clear to me. There is a spirituality there but its extent is not clear.

Other than differing statements of faith, what makes your Gnosticism different from southern baptists? from catholic?

If you want to be understood you first have to explain.

So what was your reason for this thread? To inform or to proselytize without challenge?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 11:16 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 3:06 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 25 of 150 (890259)
12-30-2021 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Greatest I am
12-30-2021 11:35 AM


Re: Gnostic What?
We use the quotes put into the esoteric ecumenist Jesus archetype's mouth, while ignoring the immoral Roman created, Armageddon yielding genocidal Jesus.

So gnosticism is Cafeteria Christianity?

The bible is there except jesus is missing but you keep his words, except the words you don't like, except those you can interpret into liking, all backed by other cherry picked scriptures?

And no god. Kinda defeats the purpose of being christian doesn't it? Nothing to be saved from. Neither faith nor works need apply. Very secular. So why the title Christian? You say gnostics have thrown out the very reason for the existence of christianity.

Of course you can define christian into anything but the usual trope is god centered. So why the name? I like gnostic humanist, myself.

If I have this right, you, as a good gnostic christian, pick and choose from among the various christian motifs to satisfy your spiritual conceptions. And different gnostic sources give different conceptions. Your is sans god. Others are not.

You have a favorite conception of what you believe to be a gnostic religion, which you seem to have difficulty defining, but in the end you have your own personal creed unique in all humanity. Just like every other practitioner of every other religion.

Now, if you want to go on and instruct us in your own personal morality feel free. I have a better handle on where its coming from and can weigh its worth accordingly.

But on a moral note, sharing a woman is more moral than being misogynous and lowering the worth of a human being.

Having this as an example of your morality, I think you can be assured I will be rejecting it.

Edited by AZPaul3, : reword

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 11:35 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 3:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 30 of 150 (890269)
12-30-2021 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Greatest I am
12-30-2021 3:31 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
Ahh, touchy. Hit a nerve. Good.

Ok, my one at a time question:

If there is no god in your creed then I question your use of the christian label.

How can there be christianity without the Abrahamic god?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Greatest I am, posted 12-30-2021 3:31 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 12:33 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 41 of 150 (890292)
12-31-2021 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Greatest I am
12-31-2021 12:33 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
Let me state my understanding of your last post.

You gnostic christians are not christians, do not believe in the tenets of any of the usual christian creeds, but claim philosophical kinship to the biblical christian myths for their morality tales. I'm unclear if you are defining god as each of us humans individually (mega-polytheism) or as Mother Nature, physics, the reality we can see, the universe as god.

Before I go on, am I close?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 12:33 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 5:33 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 46 of 150 (890309)
12-31-2021 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Greatest I am
12-31-2021 5:33 PM


Re: Gnostic What?
If you can't comprehend that, I guess we are done.

Ok, we're done.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Greatest I am, posted 12-31-2021 5:33 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 110 of 150 (891017)
01-13-2022 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Greatest I am
01-13-2022 1:31 PM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
You haven't shown evidence for any of these assertions. Maybe because you don't have any do you.

Can you support any of your stories? Will you ignore the need for evidence?

Are you better than any need to show evidence?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Greatest I am, posted 01-13-2022 1:31 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Greatest I am, posted 01-14-2022 11:48 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 113 of 150 (891051)
01-14-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Greatest I am
01-14-2022 11:48 AM


Re: Jesus was never anointed to Christ
I did not come here to lie ...

Then why are you doing so much of it?

If anyone has anything that contradicts what I write, bring it on.

I contradict all of it. I'm calling you a liar. Care to show me wrong?

I call your assertions falsehoods because you refuse to evidence them. No evidence. That is all anyone needs to reject any assertion.

Rejected.

I have done most of my own research and will not bother having posters reject it because they do not like the source.

In other words your sources are as shit as your assertions and you know that. Interesting and good to know.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Greatest I am, posted 01-14-2022 11:48 AM Greatest I am has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 142 of 150 (891348)
01-26-2022 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Greatest I am
01-26-2022 11:39 AM


Re: Questions
... any Gnostic Christian questions anyone?

Yes.

How can you sleep at night knowing you are so absolutely fucking stupid?

I should think someone as deficient in intellect and character as you would suffer debilitating depression knowing how dumb you are in this society. That has got to crush your ego, your self-esteem, leaving you but an empty husk of desolation. How do you handle that?

I'm here for you, all ears, if you want to talk.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Greatest I am, posted 01-26-2022 11:39 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2022 12:32 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6834
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 149 of 150 (892172)
03-01-2022 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by dwise1
03-01-2022 11:51 AM


I believe that was Vroomfondel talking to Majikthise during the initial commissioning of Deep Thought.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by dwise1, posted 03-01-2022 11:51 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by dwise1, posted 03-01-2022 1:57 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
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