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Author Topic:   Could Trump Instigate A New Civil War?
jar
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Posts: 33957
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Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2 of 90 (890965)
01-12-2022 6:02 PM


Hitler was very popular for a long time and had support not just from within Germany but even in the US. Henry Ford and Lindberg and Joseph Kennedy and Lady Astor and Father Charles Coughlin as well as US companies like Ford and General Motors and Dow Chemical and Coca-Cola and Kodak and IBM all worked with and profited from the Nazi Regime.

Mussolini was popular both at home and abroad with vast support from the major European and US companies and Governments.

It's unlikely that there would be a US Civil War again BUT the likelihood of a Fascist Autocratic Government or a Military Coup are far, far higher. The question is rather will the transition to the Autocratic Fascist State be a relatively peaceful transition as happened in Japan, Italy and Germany rather than the Civil War scenario as in Spain?

And if as is most likely the transition to the Autocratic Fascist State is peaceful will the Military stand by and simply accept the status change from Democracy to Autocracy as happened in Germany, and Italy. In Japan it was the Military that instigated and created the transition to the Fascist Autocratic State by foreign intervention but again the transition was relatively peaceful with only a few key players being assassinated. Such Foreign intervention does not seem likely in the current US situation, so Germany and Italy are more likely scenarios.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 7 of 90 (890981)
01-13-2022 7:24 AM


Lots of great advantages.
An autocratic command economy has many advantages for business. Troublesome things like fair labor practices or unions or worker safety laws or environmental laws can simply be forgotten when convenient. There would be no messy things like demonstrations or strikes or slowdowns.

Elections would be far less disruptive and things like January 6th. would simply not be allowed.

There is absolutely no reason Trump would or needs to instigate a civil war. Again, look at the history of Germany, Italy the USSR or Japan.

Nazi Germany was the world leader in implementing the 40-hour work week, guaranteed retirement and pension, annual paid vacations with government created and supported vacation locations. Germany was a world leader in youth education and entitlement.

There would be no reparations and lots of new jobs and lower fuel prices and for those who were party members a great life and future.

The US under a Trump Dictatorship would be Nazi Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s, prosperous, peaceful, full of hope.

The only possible issue is that il Donaldo has NEVER been a success at running anything but not to worry, he has never suffered from the inevitable collapse.

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key, stopped too soon

Edited by jar, : if ---> is


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 8 of 90 (890983)
01-13-2022 8:48 AM


The whole idea of some civil war is simply sophomoric.
First the legal means to change from our current messy democratic republic to an autocratic fascist state are already in place or being put in place.

The tool is simply the Constitutionally Created Electoral College.

From Article2 US Constitution.

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

The individual States can decide who is a member of their Electoral College Delegation and there is no requirement that the popular vote even be considered.

Currently the effort in many States is to curtail the popular vote and to design districts to maintain control of voting.

If successful, the two-prong assault of limiting the popular vote and control of the Electoral Delegation means that in 2024 the outcome of the Presidential Election will be determined by the will of the individual State Legislatures rather than the votes.

But wait, there's more.

The same States that are involved above are also modifying both who gets to vote and who gets to count the votes.

So far it is all legal and Constitutional and so the most likely outcome would be a Legal, Constitutional coup.

The question then is if it does meet the Constitutional challenge, will the Military that has sworn to uphold the US Constitution oppose the coup?

If the US Military decides to take-sides then no civilian group has the capability to oppose them. If the Military decides to not intervene then the US will simply become and autocratic fascist State.

And business will simply prosper.


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jar
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Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(4)
Message 15 of 90 (890994)
01-13-2022 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
01-13-2022 9:49 AM


Re: What advantages would a modern fascist state have?
Phat??????????????????????????

Learn the basics.

The US was anti-Jewish. All of the names I mentioned in Message 2 were antisemites.

Antisemitism is still prevalent and nearly ubiquitous in the US.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 19 of 90 (891000)
01-13-2022 11:23 AM


What counts?
Remember that it is not who votes that counts, not who the people vote for that counts; it is who counts the votes and what they announce that counts.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 23 of 90 (891028)
01-13-2022 5:34 PM


Remember history or relive it.
The leaders of the Beer Hall Putsch were tried, convicted, sentenced to prison and ...

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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 25 of 90 (891048)
01-14-2022 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by AZPaul3
01-13-2022 1:57 PM


History yet again, damnit!
What does the evidence show?

The US has a history of being able to get seditious conspiracy convictions as long as it involves Muslim Clerics or Puerto Ricans. All the WASPS and Good Old Boys that have been tried on seditious conspiracy charges have been acquitted.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 29 of 90 (891057)
01-14-2022 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Theodoric
01-14-2022 12:23 PM


Re: History yet again, damnit!
Correct, societies do change. But the WASP/Good Old Boy getting acquitted is fairly recent news from 1998 and 2010.

From Wiki:
Fort Smith sedition trial - Ten white supremacists were indicted for seditious conspiracy in 1987 for crimes in related to The Order and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord. All ten defendants and four other defendants indicted for different crimes were acquitted in April 1988 after a two-month trial.

On 29 March 2010, nine members of Hutaree were charged with seditious conspiracy. They were acquitted due to the prosecution's reliance on circumstantial evidence.

I'm not sure we have changed all that much recently but we will see. I hope that the result of the arrests and indictments will be factual data that will allow the driving forces to get addressed but honestly see little hope there.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 32 of 90 (891138)
01-19-2022 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
01-19-2022 11:13 AM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Phat writes:

Martin Luther King was a social justice warrior who understood this. Malcolm X was not.

You truly are totally clueless.

Malcom X taught and preached exactly what Jesus commanded his followers to preach and do. He was a true follower of Jesus while you and much of modern Christianity are simply GOATS.

If Jesus were to return today many like Malcolm X and Mohamud would be standing at his right hand while you and all the Apologists would simply be thrown away.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 36 of 90 (891148)
01-19-2022 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
01-19-2022 2:59 PM


Do you know anything about Jesus?
Phat writes:

I do support the message of Christianity over the message of a one-world international brotherhood (and sisterhood).

Yet it was Jesus whose message was and is that there is only one world international brotherhood (and sisterhood).

We've been down this path over and over and over again yet all you do is post messages that are the direct opposite of what Jesus taught.

Luke 10:

quote:
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.


Luke 4:

quote:
22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

23And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

24And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

25But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.



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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 40 of 90 (891152)
01-19-2022 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
01-19-2022 3:44 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Basics Phat, learn the basics.

The Romans were once the super-power yet all the areas that were Roman are still doing just fine.

The Dutch were once the super-power yet all the areas that were Dutch are still doing just fine.

The French were once the super-power yet all the areas that were French are still doing just fine.

The Austro-Hungarians were once the super-power yet all the areas that were Austro-Hungarian are still doing just fine.

The British were once the super-power yet all the areas that were British are still doing just fine.

Stop listening to the sophomoric right wing carny pitchmen and the Christian conmen.

Throw God away.

Phat writes:

First off, why do you jump towards dismissing apologetics yet feed into this universal brotherhood of love and inclusion which is what "Jesus taught"?

Seriously Phat?

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 43 of 90 (891156)
01-19-2022 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
01-19-2022 5:01 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
YAWN

Phat writes:

We are nearing the final days. Once the economy collapses, money hyper-inflates, the bill gets paid at the expense of every US citizen, and our status as an empire comes to an end, I will again ask you if things will go on as they always did when past empires fell.

Sure Phat, come back then.

Too funny!


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 45 of 90 (891158)
01-19-2022 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
01-19-2022 5:01 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Phat, remember that Jesus was positive that the Final Days would happen while his entourage was still alive.

Paul thought the Final Days would come while he was still alive.

They were both wrong and the Peter Epistles are the opening salvo of the Apologetics, folks trying to explain away the fact that that which was prophesied simply turned out to be false prophesy.

The task of making up excuses of why no true prophesies have ever come true without human intentionally making stuff up of setting up a play act has continued and supported the whole breed of apologists for many millennia.

It's great selling products that have absolutely no product liability or truth in advertising risks.

Edited by jar, : fix gramur


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 49 of 90 (891170)
01-20-2022 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
01-20-2022 2:28 AM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Sam Clemens was talking about Tucker Carlson.

Why do you not just listen too but without thinking or checking their lies accept such obvious bullshit?

To do more harm than good they would have to burn down more homes than there are homes for the homeless that actually provide shelter.

And who said, "Shelter the homeless"?

Edited by jar, : No reason given.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 59 of 90 (891212)
01-21-2022 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
01-21-2022 9:05 AM


Learn the basics Phat.
Phat, you are as clueless about economics and taxation as you are about Christianity or Jesus message.

How is money spent on the homeless wasted?

Tell us in YOUR words, not some propaganda link.

How is taxpayer money being wasted? Specifics with evidence or reasoned arguments needed.

There is no doubt taxpayer money is being wasted but let's see your specific complaints and find out if they are real or another of your fantasies.

AbE: also explain exactly how most of your recent posts are related to the topic since it's clear that they really are significant contributors to the possibility of Trump or some other utter failure tearing the US apart?

Edited by jar, : see abe


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