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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7147
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 421 of 440 (891059)
01-14-2022 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Michael MD
01-14-2022 12:24 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
Then, in 1887, Michelson and Morley obtained a negative, or "null" result for the existence of an ether.. Then, gradually over several decades, a combination of Einsteinian relativity and "ether-less" quantum-order systems became the consensus model of physics.

But you have shown nothing to show that they are related. You merely asserted.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Michael MD, posted 01-14-2022 12:24 PM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7147
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 422 of 440 (891060)
01-14-2022 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Michael MD
01-14-2022 12:24 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
Your ignorance of the scientific method pretty much makes any point you try to make moot. Actual scientists don't try to prove, they try to disprove. They look for ways that their hypothesis fails.

Are you really an MD or does that stand for something else? I know a lot of docs. I sleep with one every night. Some of them are narcissistic assholes, but I know of none that would have the audacity to try to attack quantum physics. They know their lane. I am always amazed with laymen that have the hubris to think what they thought of while taking a shit undermines contemporary accepted scientific models, theories and explanation. You think you have developed an explanation that overturns over 100 years of science. WOW!!


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Michael MD, posted 01-14-2022 12:24 PM Michael MD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:32 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 423 of 440 (891083)
01-16-2022 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 420 by AZPaul3
01-14-2022 1:02 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
My position on the unavoidable impossibility of applying mathematics to the undetectable nature of the kind of ether in my Model, is that the weight of other types of evidence, plus logic, could still make a credible model to counter the current models of physics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by AZPaul3, posted 01-14-2022 1:02 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by AZPaul3, posted 01-16-2022 9:40 AM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 426 by nwr, posted 01-16-2022 10:11 AM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 427 by dwise1, posted 01-16-2022 1:02 PM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 424 of 440 (891084)
01-16-2022 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 422 by Theodoric
01-14-2022 6:00 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
Theodoric,

Besides being a medical doctor, I have a bachelor degree as a major in chemistry, a tough major course in one of the physical sciences. I received a membership in the American Chemical Society at that time.

If you took the time to look back through earlier posts in this Thread, you would have seen that I don't claim this Ether Model came only out of my own head. The basic ideas for the Model were obtained through codebreaking, of sets of codes, putatively enciphered by otherworldly sources.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 6:00 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by dwise1, posted 01-16-2022 1:15 PM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 429 by Theodoric, posted 01-16-2022 2:47 PM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 430 by Percy, posted 01-16-2022 7:00 PM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 431 by ringo, posted 01-17-2022 11:08 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6209
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


(1)
Message 425 of 440 (891085)
01-16-2022 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Michael MD
01-16-2022 9:11 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
... the weight of other types of evidence, plus logic, could still make a credible model to counter the current models of physics.

So says your wishful thinking. Part of your fantasy.

The only kind of evidence, logic, credible model in physics is the math. Without the math, Michael MD, you have nothing to offer. Your aether is being ignored.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:11 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5886
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 7.8


(1)
Message 426 of 440 (891086)
01-16-2022 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Michael MD
01-16-2022 9:11 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
My position on the unavoidable impossibility of applying mathematics to the undetectable nature of the kind of ether in my Model, is that the weight of other types of evidence, plus logic, could still make a credible model to counter the current models of physics.

You are even admitting that your "ether" is undectable.

What you are doing is not science. It is imagination.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:11 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4813
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 427 of 440 (891087)
01-16-2022 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by Michael MD
01-16-2022 9:11 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
My position on the unavoidable impossibility of applying mathematics to the undetectable nature of the kind of ether in my Model, ...

Time to repost this Carl Sagan quote:

quote:
The Physicist and the Metaphysicist

In the 1920s, there was a dinner at which the physicist Robert W. Wood was asked to respond to a toast. This was a time when people stood up, made a toast, and then selected someone to respond. Nobody knew what toast they'd be asked to reply to, so it was a challenge for the quick-witted. In this case the toast was: "To physics and metaphysics." Now by metaphysics was meant something like philosophy -- truths that you could get to just by thinking about them. Wood took a second, glanced about him, and answered along these lines:

The physicist has an idea, he said. The more he thinks it through, the more sense it makes to him. He goes to the scientific literature, and the more he reads, the more promising the idea seems. Thus prepared, he devises an experiment to test the idea. The experiment is painstaking. Many possibilities are eliminated or taken into account; the accuracy of the measurement is refined. At the end of all this work, the experiment is completed and ... the idea is shown to be worthless. The physicist then discards the idea, frees his mind (as I was saying a moment ago) from the clutter of error, and moves on to something else.

The difference between physics and metaphysics, Wood concluded, is that the metaphysicist has no laboratory.

(reportedly from an essay by Carl Sagan, http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/saganws.htm)


Without evidence and without the ability to test your hypotheses with attempts to disprove it (as we have repeatedly tried to explain to you), you have nothing but a fanciful idea.

Just accept it as a fanciful idea and leave it at that enjoying it for all it could ever hope to be -- I do that with many "explanations" for how the slot in West Coast Swing originated which are great stories but very unlikely to be true (my personal favorite is the one about drunken sailors on liberty).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:11 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4813
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(2)
Message 428 of 440 (891088)
01-16-2022 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by Michael MD
01-16-2022 9:32 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
The basic ideas for the Model were obtained through codebreaking, of sets of codes, putatively enciphered by otherworldly sources.
[DWise1: my emphasis added]

OK, so ancient alien astronauts. Say no more, say no more (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

Are you also into Bible codes? That is yet another "field" in which codebreaking and pattern searching are used to find secret prophetic messages in the Hebrew text of the Torah. Interestingly, it also works on translations into Hebrew of such works as Moby Dick and War and Peace.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:32 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-20-2022 6:55 PM dwise1 has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7147
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 429 of 440 (891089)
01-16-2022 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by Michael MD
01-16-2022 9:32 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
So all you have is a wild ass idea, numerology(or something like it), the supernatural, and woo. Not science,

The vast majority of M.D.'s have a B.A. in a science subject. I do know one with a B.A. in Music and another with a B.A. in History. My wife's is in Biology. It does not make her an expert in Biology.
Membership in the ACS is nothing special, just about anyone can join. You don't even need to have a degree In Chemistry. Not sure why you thought this was some sort of special honor that you should mention.
I have a B.A. in History and have been a member of a couple national historical societies. None of this makes me an expert and I certainly would not present those memberships as some sort of honor.
Maybe you can get away with spouting this bullshit around your family and friends and other websites. Not here. We demand actual evidence. Through the years we have seen many, many purveyors of woo here. Compared to many of them you are a sophomoric piker. You have next to nothing and what you do have is not science.


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:32 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20500
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 8.5


Message 430 of 440 (891095)
01-16-2022 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by Michael MD
01-16-2022 9:32 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
Michael MD writes:

Besides being a medical doctor, I have a bachelor degree as a major in chemistry, a tough major course in one of the physical sciences. I received a membership in the American Chemical Society at that time.

This is just as much fantasy as your ether claims. What you've written in this thread says "delusional," not "medical doctor" or even "college graduate." You've said very little true or rational since you've been here.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:32 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by Theodoric, posted 01-17-2022 12:01 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19379
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 431 of 440 (891102)
01-17-2022 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 424 by Michael MD
01-16-2022 9:32 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
Michael MD writes:

The basic ideas for the Model were obtained through codebreaking, of sets of codes, putatively enciphered by otherworldly sources.


Y'know, codebreaking is also done via the scientific method. Decoded messages have to be compared with reality to determine whether or not the decoding worked.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Michael MD, posted 01-16-2022 9:32 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7147
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 432 of 440 (891107)
01-17-2022 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 430 by Percy
01-16-2022 7:00 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
I find it kind of curious that he highlighted his membership in ACS rather than any specialty training or certification he has.
This is a huge red flag that makes me highly doubt his claims of being an MD. The first thing an MD usually will tell you when you ask about their credentials is their specialty.
GP's without a specialty basically do not exist anymore in the USA. No one will higher you and insurers will not credential you if you do not have a specialty. Those family practice doc's at the local clinic? They are specialists. Their specialty is either Family Practice Medicine or Internal Medicine. They went through a 3-year residency to learn the skills they need to practice medicine.
I have to call bullshit on Michael.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by Percy, posted 01-16-2022 7:00 PM Percy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Michael MD, posted 01-19-2022 7:20 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 433 of 440 (891134)
01-19-2022 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by Theodoric
01-17-2022 12:01 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
During the Viet Nam period, I was an MD in the Army. I returned to residency on being discharged, but I had lost my academic motivation toward being a medical specialist, quit hospital training and entered General Practice. That was at a time before generalists needed to be board-credentialed to be well accepted.

The posts saying my Ether Model can't be tested have ignored my posts where I mention a possible field test that predicts effects of an ether (not directly demonstrating the ether, but, certain effects having been predicted, would be strong indirect evidence of its existence. As I've said, such a test would be expensive, and no sponsor has been found to get it done.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Theodoric, posted 01-17-2022 12:01 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 434 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2022 11:08 AM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 436 by vimesey, posted 01-19-2022 12:25 PM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 437 by dwise1, posted 01-19-2022 1:18 PM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7147
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 434 of 440 (891135)
01-19-2022 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 433 by Michael MD
01-19-2022 7:20 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
This goes back to my question of why you think your MD and a BS in Chemistry somehow give you expertise.
All great that you are an MD and all that, but that is not relevant to most things on this forum, or life for that matter.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Michael MD, posted 01-19-2022 7:20 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 11:23 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33648
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 435 of 440 (891139)
01-19-2022 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 434 by Theodoric
01-19-2022 11:08 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
Notice that the fool has NEVER outlined what "The possible field test that predicts effects of an ether (not directly demonstrating the ether, but, certain effects having been predicted, would be strong indirect evidence of its existence." might be or what any of the prediction were.

The man is simply too clueless to even create the most basic first steps needed.

Pathetic!


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2022 11:08 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
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