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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
dwise1
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Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 461 of 513 (891079)
01-15-2022 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 460 by Percy
01-15-2022 8:02 PM


drlove writes:
Others suggested herd immunity would better be achieved without the pretense of separation.
Well, if he really wants to achieve herd immunity through getting everybody infected and he's OK with millions of deaths and disabled (disabled number more), then that just reveals what he is. Since he is so committed to natural immunity (which has become popular among deniers such as Dennis Prager), we should encourage him to seek natural immunity to ebola, rabies, and the bubonic plague.
And the example of singing in church and Costco (not Cosco) lines 'round the block isn't an apt comparison since church is indoors and lines 'round the block are outdoors.
I was in those CostCo lines pre-vaccine (fortunately I was less than halfway through my TP supply when it hit, so I wasn't affected by the TP shortage -- 1 CostCo bag of TP lasts me nearly 7 months). Like many grocery stores, they opened an hour early on certain days for seniors (I qualify) -- many other businesses, including restaurants, had you make your purchase on-line and then when you came to pick it up they put it in your car trunk). Especially since this was pre-vaccine, we all wore masks, grabbed a shopping cart, and got in line with the cart ensuring the six feet of separation. And since that line, which would go nearly halfway around the store, was outdoors, then using the indoors recommended separation distance was being overly cautious. Then an employee would meter our entry, allowing only so many in at a time such that they limited the number of customers inside the store at any given time (ie, once the allowed number had entered, then as customers came out with their purchases the traffic director would allow that many to enter).
So what the hell is drlove's problem with how that evolution was executed?
As for "singing in church", that was typically without masks and crowding the congregation together and even encouraging them to abandon any attempts at social distancing, avoiding contact (instead hugging and shaking hands), or any other precautions. At my doctor visits when he had to examine my face under my mask, then he would tell me to remove and not exhale or talk. But singing, like talking loudly, sprays more aerosol much farther, thus helping the virus spread faster and more effectively. All those churches were doing was to defy every single common sense health measure there is, caring less than nothing about their own lives and health or for anyone else's (most especially the ones closest and dearest to them such as friends and family) ... but then zealously harming and even killing others indiscriminately has always been the Christian way, hasn't it?
drlove writes:
Most treatments known to work and recommended by some professionals were vilified and suppressed.
What "treatments known to work" do you mean? If it's hydroxycloroquine and ivermectin, they very likely do not work.
Or drinking bleach. Or eating dirt. Or drinking your own urine ... though I'll bet that drlove is so abysmally stupid that he doesn't know that for the urine to be effective you have to have eaten lots of asperagus first and given it time to work through your system into the bladder.
Edited by dwise1, : Changed "Like many retail businesses" to "Like many grocery stores"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Percy, posted 01-15-2022 8:02 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(2)
Message 470 of 513 (891115)
01-17-2022 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Tangle
01-17-2022 4:04 AM


Re: Foxes guarding henhouse
How old are you?
You forget that trolls never mature. They are born already in an advanced stage of putrefaction which only gets ever worse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Tangle, posted 01-17-2022 4:04 AM Tangle has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 492 of 513 (891354)
01-26-2022 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 487 by jar
01-26-2022 7:55 AM


Re: Any Redeeming Value?
Since the 1950s the Christian Cult of Willful Ignorance and Avoidance has had the sole goal of creating a society where SOURCE trumps content, BELIEF trumps evidence and FANTASY trumps reality.
Yes, I agree that drlove reeks of eau de YEC. Trying to have any kind of discussion with him is exactly like trying it with a YEC: utterly futile as he uses the same rhetorical tactics as YECs do. Hence Tangle's repeated question to him about the age of the earth, which drlove avoids in typical YEC fashion.
They have no base to stand on and nothing stops them from believing two mutually exclusive points of view simultaneously.
Which is exactly Robert Altemeyer's observation in his The Authoritarians (page 73):
quote:
Chapter Three
How Authoritarian Followers Think
We meet again. If you are keeping track of my promises, as we roll along together on the internet, I said in the Introduction that we would figure out why authoritarian followers think in the bizarre and perplexing way they so often do. The key to the puzzle springs from Chapter 2's observation that, first and foremost, followers have mainly copied the beliefs of the authorities in their lives. They have not developed and thought through their ideas as much as most people have. Thus almost anything can be found in their heads if their authorities put it there, even stuff that contradicts other stuff. A filing cabinet or a computer can store quite inconsistent notions and never lose a minute of sleep over their contradiction. Similarly a high RWA can have all sorts of illogical, self-contradictory, and widely refuted ideas rattling around in various boxes in his brain, and never notice it.
So can everybody, of course, and my wife loves to catch inconsistencies in my reasoning when we’re having a friendly discussion about one of my personal failures. But research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and--to top it all off--a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic. These seven deadly shortfalls of authoritarian thinking eminently qualify them to follow a wouldbe dictator. As Hitler is reported to have said,“What good fortune for those in power that people do not think.”
Page 80:
quote:
2. Highly Compartmentalized Minds
As I said earlier, authoritarians’ ideas are poorly integrated with one another. It’s as if each idea is stored in a file that can be called up and used when the authoritarian wishes, even though another of his ideas--stored in a different file-- basically contradicts it. We all have some inconsistencies in our thinking, but authoritarians can stupify you with the inconsistency of their ideas. Thus they may say they are proud to live in a country that guarantees freedom of speech, but another file holds, “My country, love it or leave it.” The ideas were copied from trusted sources, often as sayings, but the authoritarian has never “merged files” to see how well they all fit together.
It’s easy to find authoritarians endorsing inconsistent ideas. Just present slogans and appeals to homey values, and then present slogans and bromides that invoke opposite values. The yea-saying authoritarian follower is likely to agree with all of them. Thus I asked both students and their parents to respond to, “When it comes to love, men and women with opposite points of view are attracted to each other.” Soon afterwards, in the same booklet, I pitched “Birds of a feather flock together when it comes to love.” High RWAs typically agreed with both statements, even though they responded to the two items within a minute of each other. But that’s the point: they don’t seem to scan for self-consistency as much as most people do. Similarly they tended to agree with “A government should allow total freedom of expression, even it if threatens law and order” and “A government should only allow freedom of expression so long as it does not threaten law and order.” And “Parents should first of all be gentle and tender with their children,” and “Parents should first of all be firm and uncompromising with their children; spare the rod and spoil the child.”
And be sure to check out his Chapter Four on page 106, Authoritarian Followers and Religious Fundamentalism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 487 by jar, posted 01-26-2022 7:55 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 493 by Percy, posted 01-26-2022 6:08 PM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 495 by drlove, posted 01-26-2022 6:44 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(2)
Message 501 of 513 (891363)
01-26-2022 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by drlove
01-26-2022 6:44 PM


Re: Any Redeeming Value?
The age of the earth is probably somewhere close to the one Usher calculated, give or take a few hundred years.
Yep, you're a YEC whack-job. Exact same style trolling. We can recognize that stench from a mile away.
Slither back under your rock.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by drlove, posted 01-26-2022 6:44 PM drlove has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 505 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-27-2022 1:23 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
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