Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9078 total)
842 online now:
dwise1, kjsimons, nwr, Parasomnium (4 members, 838 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 895,240 Year: 6,352/6,534 Month: 545/650 Week: 83/232 Day: 22/38 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Could Trump Instigate A New Civil War?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19767
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(4)
Message 16 of 90 (890995)
01-13-2022 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
01-12-2022 8:13 PM


Re: What advantages would a modern fascist state have?
Phat writes:

... what possible advantages would a fascist state have...?


Well, it would have a lot of advantages for the fascists.

Phat writes:

What would the people expect out of such a state versus what such a totalitarian regime actually deliver?


Totalitarianism is not for your benefit.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 01-12-2022 8:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7422
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 17 of 90 (890997)
01-13-2022 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
01-13-2022 9:51 AM


Re: Are States Rights A Smokescreen?
In what crazy universe is this
Phat writes:

It has been suggested that a new digital currency like FedCoin would be easily traceable and taxable.

an answer to this?

quote:
Phat writes:

How did you go from potential to civil war to rail against reparations? They want to essentially lock our private earnings in with a national agenda.


WTF?
Who are the mysterious 'they"? What does this statement even mean?
Sounds like you are just trying to find a way to pigeonhole RWNJ(Right Wing Nut Job) talking points into a topic.

Who are they?
And we get another RWNJ talking point and conspiracy theory. I guess it is nice to see something never change. In the few years I was gone Phat still has not learned that the wealthy right-wingers do not give a rat's ass for people like him, but he will fall for their bullshit every time.

Answer the question or admit you just want to post bullshit conspiracy theories and shut down this thread.

You retired yet? You have always been on the margins economically and you are worried about the wealthy payng more taxes. Brilliant.


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 01-13-2022 9:51 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19767
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(3)
Message 18 of 90 (890998)
01-13-2022 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
01-13-2022 2:36 AM


Re: Are States Rights A Smokescreen?
Phat writes:

They want to essentially lock our private earnings in with a national agenda.


The best defense you have against a "national agenda" is a strong democracy where everybody's viewpoint is represented. YOU are working against that by calling the liberal point-of-view "satanic".

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 01-13-2022 2:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 11:13 AM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 19 of 90 (891000)
01-13-2022 11:23 AM


What counts?
Remember that it is not who votes that counts, not who the people vote for that counts; it is who counts the votes and what they announce that counts.

My Website: My Website

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6835
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 20 of 90 (891013)
01-13-2022 1:57 PM


Sedition Charges
This may impact this discussion.

Oath Keepers Leader Charged With Conspiracy in Jan. 6 Investigation

Sedition charges were filed. The first federal sedition charges from Jan 6.

I see these guys, and their substantial sisterhood, as the brownshirts of any coming coup.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Theodoric, posted 01-13-2022 2:06 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 25 by jar, posted 01-14-2022 11:38 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7422
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 21 of 90 (891015)
01-13-2022 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by AZPaul3
01-13-2022 1:57 PM


Re: Sedition Charges
I think we now know why the charges took so long. The DOJ wanted to make sure every t was crossed and every I dotted. This is gonna hurt the MAGA movement. Now the DOJ starts picking them apart and getting them to turn on each other and give al the info they have.
Link to the indictment.
https://www.justice.gov/...ess-release/file/1462346/download

Edited by Theodoric, : clarify


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2022 1:57 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2022 2:20 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6835
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 22 of 90 (891018)
01-13-2022 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Theodoric
01-13-2022 2:06 PM


Re: Sedition Charges
Punch 'em in the mouth, kick 'em in the teeth.

Now we need to surround The Orange Seditionist himself with a set of crossed t's and dotted i's.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Theodoric, posted 01-13-2022 2:06 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 23 of 90 (891028)
01-13-2022 5:34 PM


Remember history or relive it.
The leaders of the Beer Hall Putsch were tried, convicted, sentenced to prison and ...

My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Theodoric, posted 01-13-2022 6:29 PM jar has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7422
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 24 of 90 (891029)
01-13-2022 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
01-13-2022 5:34 PM


Re: Remember history or relive it.
This is just an aphorism. What happened then has no effect on today.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 01-13-2022 5:34 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 25 of 90 (891048)
01-14-2022 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by AZPaul3
01-13-2022 1:57 PM


History yet again, damnit!
What does the evidence show?

The US has a history of being able to get seditious conspiracy convictions as long as it involves Muslim Clerics or Puerto Ricans. All the WASPS and Good Old Boys that have been tried on seditious conspiracy charges have been acquitted.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2022 1:57 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 12:23 PM jar has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7422
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 26 of 90 (891052)
01-14-2022 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
01-14-2022 11:38 AM


Re: History yet again, damnit!
Agreed, but there was also a time when a cop never went to prison for killing a black man. Or when a couple of good old boys could lynch a black man for being in the wrong neighborhood without being charged.
Times change.
One of the problems with the trite saying from George Santayana is that it has no acknowledgment that societies change. Evidence of things in the past is not evidence of what will happen in the future. If we are going to believe that, we should just give up and save our energy.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 01-14-2022 11:38 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 01-14-2022 1:58 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7422
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 27 of 90 (891054)
01-14-2022 12:35 PM


Good article on this subject
Ignoring all of Phat's RWNJ talking points that have no bearing on the topic, Here is an article that discusses the possibility of a Civil War in the USA.
Civil war in the US is unlikely because grievance doesn’t necessarily translate directly into violence

The author, a professor of political science with a PhD, makes a couple strong points.
First, grievance does not automatically translate into violence. There are lots of countries with more political instability in the world, yet there are only 8 civil wars in the world today.
Second, the risks of joining a rebellion are extremely high. Very few people are going to take that risk.
Finally, there will be violence. Violence will escalate. Domestic violence is and will be on the rise, but that does not indicate more chance of a civil war.


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by AZPaul3, posted 01-14-2022 1:25 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6835
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 28 of 90 (891056)
01-14-2022 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Theodoric
01-14-2022 12:35 PM


Re: Good article on this subject
Domestic violence is and will be on the rise, but that does not indicate more chance of a civil war.

So that's fine as long as we don't call total anarchy 'civil war'.

Is it a civil war if there are like 180 different factions? Warlords? Think feudal Japan, or Europe's 100-years war. That wouldn't be a civil war. That would be well after all the 'civil' had disintegrated.

Nah, somebody will nuke somebody who will nuke somebody back and their friends will nuke somebody's friends and well just lots of nukes going off all over the planet for a few years.

We're fucked.

Oh, and have you heard about climate change?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 12:35 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 11:17 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 29 of 90 (891057)
01-14-2022 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Theodoric
01-14-2022 12:23 PM


Re: History yet again, damnit!
Correct, societies do change. But the WASP/Good Old Boy getting acquitted is fairly recent news from 1998 and 2010.

From Wiki:
Fort Smith sedition trial - Ten white supremacists were indicted for seditious conspiracy in 1987 for crimes in related to The Order and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord. All ten defendants and four other defendants indicted for different crimes were acquitted in April 1988 after a two-month trial.

On 29 March 2010, nine members of Hutaree were charged with seditious conspiracy. They were acquitted due to the prosecution's reliance on circumstantial evidence.

I'm not sure we have changed all that much recently but we will see. I hope that the result of the arrests and indictments will be factual data that will allow the driving forces to get addressed but honestly see little hope there.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 12:23 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16093
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 30 of 90 (891136)
01-19-2022 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
01-13-2022 11:11 AM


Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
ringo writes:

The best defense you have against a "national agenda" is a strong democracy where everybody's viewpoint is represented. YOU are working against that by calling the liberal point-of-view "satanic".

Agreed. I believe that in the near future we will have social unrest. I believe that peaceful protest where preachers can take the mic as easily as civil rights activists and social justice movements and where anyone who has any substance behind their speeches (in my vernacular, having the right "Spirit") is a right in any democracy.

After prayer and contemplation, I am accepting many views that I used to reject. One of them which I do *not* accept is the fact that all viewpoints lead to truth.
Truth is the eternally living character of Jesus Christ. Martin Luther King was a social justice warrior who understood this. Malcolm X was not. Louis Farrakhan is not. None of the "good ole boys" representing white nationalism under the guise of patriotism have any clue who Jesus is or was. (At least not by their actions).

Many Christians globally are rich in wisdom yet poor materialistically. In America, we have a subset of what jar refers to as "Biblical Christians" who do have money and who basically sold out of what Jesus said to do and supported conservative politics. I sometimes ask myself if I am one of them. As I examine myself and what I believe, I realize that I fear governmental control of my assets and do not trust the government in regards to what they plan to do about the social unrest that in my opinion, they themselves are creating through careless and reckless management of the US Dollar and of the overall leniency given to corporate greed. On the opposite end of that spectrum, I myself was outraged that organized crime at the local level (specifically in grocery stores and retail) was not punished. I work for every dollar that I earn, and do not like to see the bill being paid through inflation.

Again, WWJD? I am not an enemy of the common people...in fact, I see that they and I have a lot in common that I used to not see. Perhaps I am fighting the wrong fights.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see that we are far behind on the taxes needed to begin to pay back the enormous 29 trillion in debt that the US treasury is stuck with.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 01-13-2022 11:11 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 11:18 AM Phat has replied
 Message 33 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2022 11:53 AM Phat has replied
 Message 83 by ringo, posted 01-24-2022 10:50 AM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022