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Author Topic:   Could Trump Instigate A New Civil War?
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 31 of 90 (891137)
01-19-2022 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by AZPaul3
01-14-2022 1:25 PM


Re: Good article on this subject
AZPul3 writes:

So that's fine as long as we don't call total anarchy 'civil war'.

Is it a civil war if there are like 180 different factions? Warlords? Think feudal Japan, or Europe's 100-years war. That wouldn't be a civil war. That would be well after all the 'civil' had disintegrated.

Nah, somebody will nuke somebody who will nuke somebody back and their friends will nuke somebody's friends, and well just lots of nukes going off all over the planet for a few years.

We're fucked.

By whom? Ourselves?? If in fact *we* are the people, why do we spend all of our time arguing with and fighting with each other?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by AZPaul3, posted 01-14-2022 1:25 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33880
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 32 of 90 (891138)
01-19-2022 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
01-19-2022 11:13 AM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Phat writes:

Martin Luther King was a social justice warrior who understood this. Malcolm X was not.

You truly are totally clueless.

Malcom X taught and preached exactly what Jesus commanded his followers to preach and do. He was a true follower of Jesus while you and much of modern Christianity are simply GOATS.

If Jesus were to return today many like Malcolm X and Mohamud would be standing at his right hand while you and all the Apologists would simply be thrown away.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 11:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
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Posts: 7307
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 33 of 90 (891141)
01-19-2022 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
01-19-2022 11:13 AM


Do you know anything about Malcolm X?
I need to jump on this too.
Martin Luther King was a social justice warrior who understood this. Malcolm X was not.

What the F, do you know about Malcolm X? In what way was he not a social justice warrior? Because he was a follower of Islam?
You have fallen for the same lies of the RWNJ's that you always fall for. Malcolm X was not anti-white.
Maybe you should read his words before you attack him.

quote:
“There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blonds to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.”

Malcolm X's Letter From Hajj | Muslim Memo

Your white, christian privilege no longer astounds me. I expect it. But to attack someone's legacy out of ignorance should be beyond the pale even for you. If you want to claim he did not fight for social justice, bring the facts, bring the evidence. Because no matter how it feels in your heart, facts and evidence matter.


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 11:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 34 of 90 (891146)
01-19-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Theodoric
01-19-2022 11:53 AM


Re: Do you know anything about Malcolm X?
I read only a few short comments from websites where they implied that he was not for unification between blacks and whites as was Dr.King. After reading your link, I realize that I spoke too soon. I withdraw my accusation.

I still believe that Jesus is the best answer for the world and resent accusations of white Christian Privilege. I sometimes feel as if a global conflict is developing where the unification of all people will be seen as noble and empathetic and where the Christians get pushed out for being too exclusivist. Perhaps I am being influenced by what you call Right-Wing Christian Nationalism. I certainly feel no affinity for January 6th or the Nationalistic push to protect Trump. I do support the message of Christianity over the message of a one-world international brotherhood (and sisterhood).


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2022 11:53 AM Theodoric has taken no action

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5967
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 35 of 90 (891147)
01-19-2022 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
01-19-2022 2:59 PM


Re: Do you know anything about Malcolm X?
I sometimes feel as if a global conflict is developing where the unification of all people will be seen as noble and empathetic and where the Christians get pushed out for being too exclusivist.

Read the teachings of Jesus. It seems clear to me that Jesus would have welcomed the unification of all people. If Christians feel excluded from this, it is because they are not following the teachings of Jesus.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33880
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 36 of 90 (891148)
01-19-2022 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
01-19-2022 2:59 PM


Do you know anything about Jesus?
Phat writes:

I do support the message of Christianity over the message of a one-world international brotherhood (and sisterhood).

Yet it was Jesus whose message was and is that there is only one world international brotherhood (and sisterhood).

We've been down this path over and over and over again yet all you do is post messages that are the direct opposite of what Jesus taught.

Luke 10:

quote:
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.


Luke 4:

quote:
22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

23And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

24And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

25But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.



My Website: My Website

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Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 37 of 90 (891149)
01-19-2022 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
01-19-2022 11:18 AM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
First off, why do you jump towards dismissing apologetics yet feed into this universal brotherhood of love and inclusion which is what "Jesus taught"?

At least read some of what I have read without dismissing it wholesale.


Malcolm X and the Christian Ethic of Violence

Theodoric was right in that I judged Malcolm X without knowing or understanding much about him. Hopefully, you guys won't make the same mistake by dismissing Christian Apologetics without reading the article that I linked to.

What I got from it was this much:

quote:
Malcolm X is arguably one of the most important people in African American religious and political thought. He was a man heavily influenced by his own personal experiences and the historic moment into which he was born. (...)
Malcolm’s family endured racial violence. His life trajectory began to be characterized by his rejection of the society that had rejected him. This landed him in prison, where he was converted to the Nation of Islam. (...)

Many who have rejected Malcolm’s social philosophy unfairly have interpreted him as a preacher of wanton violence against White people. However, this has left them susceptible to the charge of hypocrisy because there are elements within his ethic of violence that many Christians would defend if applied to their own lives. (...)

Malcolm’s ethic of violence has at least three essential parts: self-defense, revolutionary, and retaliatory. A full theological examination of each of these exceeds the limitations of this article. However, one can conclude that Christian ethics allows for violence in the act of self-defense. Contrarily, Malcolm’s advocacy of retaliatory violence conflicts with biblical Christianity.

Malcolm X is one of the most important figures in African American history. His social philosophy in response to the racial terror of the 1950s and ’60s is seen as the ideological opposite of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He is most commonly known for and charged as an advocate of violence.1 However, professor Victor Okafor, a scholar of African American Studies, argues that Malcolm’s social philosophy was a logical response to the challenges of his time.2

Contrarily, there are a variety of views about violence posited by members of the Christian faith; for example, Martin Luther King Jr. approached the same problem but arrived at a different conclusion. He explains, “The basic question which confronts the world's oppressed is: How is the struggle against the forces of injustice to be waged? There are two possible answers. One is to resort to the all too prevalent method of physical violence and corroding hatred. The danger of this method is its futility. Violence solves no social problems; it merely creates new and more complicated ones.”3

King argued that nonviolent resistance is a superior alternative to militant resistance. In fact, he stated that nonviolent resistance is “the most potent weapon available to oppressed people.”4 Another scholar who has considered the question of violence argues that Jesus’ crucifixion demonstrates what the Christian response to violence should be.5 South African theologian Desmond Tutu suggests that, although violence is evil, it is the lesser of two evils when used to stop oppression.6 Another perspective held by James Cone, founder of Black Liberation Theology, asserts that it is normal for Westerners to view violence expressed by disenfranchised people as unchristian.


The problem in the world today that frightens me is the demise of the United States of America. Russia and China are already testing the diplomacy of strength that we had for so many years.
Russia testing West's resolve

Some points from this article:

quote:
Putin wants the world to forget 2014 in order to argue that NATO, not Russia, poses the greatest threat to world stability. It’s precisely because of Russian expansionism that NATO is weighing Ukraine’s entry into the trans-Atlantic, mutual-defense pact. Putin is trying hard to portray Russia as the victim when, in fact, it is the clear aggressor. He’s in the process of amassing an expected 175,000 Russian troops near Ukraine’s border. The Biden administration warns that Russia is preparing to do to the rest of Ukraine what it did to Crimea. (...) Russian leaders have a history of sizing up their American counterparts and calculating the most opportune moment to go on the offensive. They seem particularly prone to test U.S. resolve during Democratic administrations, such as the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan under President Jimmy Carter.

This is what keeps me up at night. The demise of America as a superpower. Humility will be the new drug needed to calm Americans that are already being told that they need to give up their privilege.

May Jesus teach me and protect me.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 11:18 AM jar has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by nwr, posted 01-19-2022 3:42 PM Phat has replied
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5967
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 38 of 90 (891150)
01-19-2022 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
01-19-2022 3:24 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
The problem in the world today that frightens me is the demise of the United States of America.

And yet you vote Republican. Why is that?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 3:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 39 of 90 (891151)
01-19-2022 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by nwr
01-19-2022 3:42 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
I do not vote Republican, ever since Obama.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by nwr, posted 01-19-2022 3:42 PM nwr has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 4:36 PM Phat has replied
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 01-19-2022 4:58 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33880
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 40 of 90 (891152)
01-19-2022 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
01-19-2022 3:44 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Basics Phat, learn the basics.

The Romans were once the super-power yet all the areas that were Roman are still doing just fine.

The Dutch were once the super-power yet all the areas that were Dutch are still doing just fine.

The French were once the super-power yet all the areas that were French are still doing just fine.

The Austro-Hungarians were once the super-power yet all the areas that were Austro-Hungarian are still doing just fine.

The British were once the super-power yet all the areas that were British are still doing just fine.

Stop listening to the sophomoric right wing carny pitchmen and the Christian conmen.

Throw God away.

Phat writes:

First off, why do you jump towards dismissing apologetics yet feed into this universal brotherhood of love and inclusion which is what "Jesus taught"?

Seriously Phat?

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 3:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 5:01 PM jar has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6621
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 41 of 90 (891153)
01-19-2022 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
01-19-2022 3:44 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Do you vote down ballot? Off-year? Non-Federal? I hope not.

Doesn't matter. To my mind you shouldn't vote and I would thank you to not vote.

No heartfelt believing christian should be allowed to vote. Can't entrust a vote to a zombie, an intellectually brain dead christian with a priest directing his thoughts.

Can't outright ban you, but like the republicans are now doing to blue districts, we could erect barriers to keep you from accessing the ballot.

In order to vote you and your fellow believers all have to start at designated churches and travel as a group to your designated poll site which is only 12 miles away but you have to walk the entire way ... on your knees ... led by your priest carrying a big wooden cross, jesus or no jesus nailed to the thing as the congregation so desires.

There should be a concerted campaign on social media to say that christians voting is evil and is encouraged by the devil himself. Voting sustains this godless secular democracy and the devil knows the best way to destroy a godless secular democracy is to not vote. But the devil doesn't want to destroy this godless secular democracy. As long as it continues he can advance his war against the blessed righteous theocracy of jesus. If the devil won't work to bring it all down then you, believing christian, must. You must not vote. It is the devil's work.

Maybe we could get the russians to spread a few million memes.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 3:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 01-20-2022 2:28 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 42 of 90 (891154)
01-19-2022 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
01-19-2022 4:36 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Seriously Phat?
Darn tootin. You mention what Jesus said to do yet you fail to emphasize what He also said must happen.

  • These things must happen.
  • nation against nation=blacks against whites against oriental etc etc.
  • At that time many will turn away from the faith. Love will grow cold.

    What makes you think that just because the Dutch, British, French, and Austro-Hungarians outcomes will mirror that of the United States? We are in different times now. The global population is reaching critical mass. Resources are becoming scarce. Pestilence(pandemics) may well become more of the norm.

    We are nearing the final days. Once the economy collapses, money hyper-inflates, the bill gets paid at the expense of every US citizen, and our status as an empire comes to an end, I will again ask you if things will go on as they always did when past empires fell.

    2 Peter 3:2-10 writes:

    . 3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days' scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

    8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

    10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 40 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 4:36 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 43 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 5:20 PM Phat has taken no action
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     Message 45 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 5:54 PM Phat has seen this message
     Message 85 by ringo, posted 01-24-2022 11:00 AM Phat has seen this message

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33880
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.8


    Message 43 of 90 (891156)
    01-19-2022 5:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
    01-19-2022 5:01 PM


    Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
    YAWN

    Phat writes:

    We are nearing the final days. Once the economy collapses, money hyper-inflates, the bill gets paid at the expense of every US citizen, and our status as an empire comes to an end, I will again ask you if things will go on as they always did when past empires fell.

    Sure Phat, come back then.

    Too funny!


    My Website: My Website

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    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 8479
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 44 of 90 (891157)
    01-19-2022 5:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
    01-19-2022 5:01 PM


    Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
    Doom, Doom, we're all doomed!
    Buy gold! Buy guns, dig that bunker. The end is nigh!

    You've lost what you had of a mind Phat.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33880
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.8


    Message 45 of 90 (891158)
    01-19-2022 5:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
    01-19-2022 5:01 PM


    Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
    Phat, remember that Jesus was positive that the Final Days would happen while his entourage was still alive.

    Paul thought the Final Days would come while he was still alive.

    They were both wrong and the Peter Epistles are the opening salvo of the Apologetics, folks trying to explain away the fact that that which was prophesied simply turned out to be false prophesy.

    The task of making up excuses of why no true prophesies have ever come true without human intentionally making stuff up of setting up a play act has continued and supported the whole breed of apologists for many millennia.

    It's great selling products that have absolutely no product liability or truth in advertising risks.

    Edited by jar, : fix gramur


    My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 42 by Phat, posted 01-19-2022 5:01 PM Phat has seen this message

      
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