I am moving my discussion upon the possibility of a New Civil War here.
My discussion evolved from this article: Imagine Another Civil War But This Time In Every State I would not be in favor of war simply because we are divided as a nation, but I could see issues that I feel strongly about causing an uproar.
quote:Business Insider published a poll in October 2020 saying a majority of Americans believed the U.S. was already in the midst of a "cold" civil war. Then last fall, the University of Virginia Center for Politics released a poll finding that a majority of people who had voted to reelect former President Donald Trump in 2020 now wanted their state to secede from the Union.
The UVA data also showed a stunning 41% of those who voted for Joe Biden in 2020 also said it might now be "time to split the country."
Researchers have found such downbeat assessments of America's democracy are especially salient among the young. Last month, the Institute of Politics at Harvard's Kennedy School published a poll that found half of voting-age Americans under 30 thought our democracy was "in trouble" or "failing." A third also said they expected there to be "a civil war" within their lifetimes. And a quarter thought at least one state would secede.
Since I started this topic, another NPR post caught my eye. This one is more scary.
If a New Civil War were to happen, Historians will undoubtedly place much of the cause on former president Trump.
NPR writes:
Some Republican leaders are trying to move on from former President Donald Trump's failed attempt to overturn the 2020 election that he lost.
"While there were some irregularities, there were none of the irregularities which would have risen to the point where they would have changed the vote outcome in a single state," Sen. Mike Rounds, R-S.D., said Sunday on ABC's This Week. "The election was fair, as fair as we have seen. We simply did not win the election, as Republicans, for the presidency. And if we simply look back and tell our people don't vote because there's cheating going on, then we're going to put ourselves at a huge disadvantage."
But Trump — who has endorsed dozens of candidates for the 2022 midterm elections and still holds by far the widest influence within the GOP — is trying hard not to let them move on. (...)Trump's political organization has become a juggernaut. Not only are most Republican elected leaders falling in line, but he has also installed allies controlling many levers of political power across the country. In state after state, Trump allies are running local Republican parties, serving as state representatives, and in charge of political action committees.
It's a political army ready to be mobilized at his beck and call. What he says — what his message is to them — matters because they follow. To secure his power, he will do whatever he can to cast aside those who don't show fealty. That includes threats, bullying, and intimidation, like badgering and name-calling.
Referring to South Dakota's Rounds in a statement after he appeared on ABC, for example, Trump said Rounds "just went woke," called him a "jerk," "weak," "ineffective" and questioned whether he was "crazy or just stupid."
He also called him a RINO, an acronym for an insult some conservatives reserve for more moderate Republicans they disagree with — Republicans in name only.
In the interview with NPR, he partially blamed Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell for Rounds and other senators feeling as though they can speak out and say — correctly — that Trump lost the election.
"Because Mitch McConnell is a loser," Trump said.
Trump has called McConnell worse — and all because the Kentucky Republican has crossed Trump, blaming him for the insurrection on Jan. 6 and saying President Biden won, even if McConnell doesn't do so forcefully every day.
It's par for the course for Trump, who has demanded unflinching loyalty — and who chafes at truths he disagrees with, especially about him losing.
I used to roll my eyes when people compared Trump to Hitler, but knowing what I do about Hitler and upon reading this article, I fear this man and his possible reelection. His megalomania and grip on power could not only plunge the United States into a new Civil War, but could bring our country down. For good! Comments?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
What advantages would a modern fascist state have?
If we were to play devils advocate in this argument, what possible advantages would a fascist state have over the arsenal of democracy that won world war II? How would such a state get along with China, the next big dog? What rights that the people now enjoy likely get changed or eliminated?
What would the people expect out of such a state versus what such a totalitarian regime actually deliver?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
In the original Civil War, Theodoric brought up a well-supported argument suggesting that the clamor for states' rights was a smokescreen to support slavery.
In a new Civil War, I could see states that wanted to succeed from the Union because of issues like higher taxation for a variety of national interests.
I have brought up the issue of reparations before, claiming essentially that while I might pay off my grandfather's debts I would be loathed to pay for all of the guilty grandfathers that were slaveowners.
This is but one issue that would possibly surface should a Civil War be proposed.
Trump is in fact an instigator of the highest order and could be all the fuel that would be needed to start a new Civil War.
Not that the liberal agenda represents the future vision for all of us.
They want to essentially lock our private earnings in with a national agenda.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
Re: What advantages would a modern fascist state have?
Wait a minute! Does a Fascist State inevitably necessitate scapegoats? Just because Nazi Germany was anti-Jewish does not necessarily mean that the US would also be....right?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
It has been suggested that a new digital currency like FedCoin would be easily traceable and taxable.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
The best defense you have against a "national agenda" is a strong democracy where everybody's viewpoint is represented. YOU are working against that by calling the liberal point-of-view "satanic".
Agreed. I believe that in the near future we will have social unrest. I believe that peaceful protest where preachers can take the mic as easily as civil rights activists and social justice movements and where anyone who has any substance behind their speeches (in my vernacular, having the right "Spirit") is a right in any democracy.
After prayer and contemplation, I am accepting many views that I used to reject. One of them which I do *not* accept is the fact that all viewpoints lead to truth. Truth is the eternally living character of Jesus Christ. Martin Luther King was a social justice warrior who understood this. Malcolm X was not. Louis Farrakhan is not. None of the "good ole boys" representing white nationalism under the guise of patriotism have any clue who Jesus is or was. (At least not by their actions).
Many Christians globally are rich in wisdom yet poor materialistically. In America, we have a subset of what jar refers to as "Biblical Christians" who do have money and who basically sold out of what Jesus said to do and supported conservative politics. I sometimes ask myself if I am one of them. As I examine myself and what I believe, I realize that I fear governmental control of my assets and do not trust the government in regards to what they plan to do about the social unrest that in my opinion, they themselves are creating through careless and reckless management of the US Dollar and of the overall leniency given to corporate greed. On the opposite end of that spectrum, I myself was outraged that organized crime at the local level (specifically in grocery stores and retail) was not punished. I work for every dollar that I earn, and do not like to see the bill being paid through inflation.
Again, WWJD? I am not an enemy of the common people...in fact, I see that they and I have a lot in common that I used to not see. Perhaps I am fighting the wrong fights.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see that we are far behind on the taxes needed to begin to pay back the enormous 29 trillion in debt that the US treasury is stuck with.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
So that's fine as long as we don't call total anarchy 'civil war'.
Is it a civil war if there are like 180 different factions? Warlords? Think feudal Japan, or Europe's 100-years war. That wouldn't be a civil war. That would be well after all the 'civil' had disintegrated.
Nah, somebody will nuke somebody who will nuke somebody back and their friends will nuke somebody's friends, and well just lots of nukes going off all over the planet for a few years.
We're fucked.
By whom? Ourselves?? If in fact *we* are the people, why do we spend all of our time arguing with and fighting with each other?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
I read only a few short comments from websites where they implied that he was not for unification between blacks and whites as was Dr.King. After reading your link, I realize that I spoke too soon. I withdraw my accusation.
I still believe that Jesus is the best answer for the world and resent accusations of white Christian Privilege. I sometimes feel as if a global conflict is developing where the unification of all people will be seen as noble and empathetic and where the Christians get pushed out for being too exclusivist. Perhaps I am being influenced by what you call Right-Wing Christian Nationalism. I certainly feel no affinity for January 6th or the Nationalistic push to protect Trump. I do support the message of Christianity over the message of a one-world international brotherhood (and sisterhood).
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
Theodoric was right in that I judged Malcolm X without knowing or understanding much about him. Hopefully, you guys won't make the same mistake by dismissing Christian Apologetics without reading the article that I linked to.
What I got from it was this much:
quote:Malcolm X is arguably one of the most important people in African American religious and political thought. He was a man heavily influenced by his own personal experiences and the historic moment into which he was born. (...) Malcolm’s family endured racial violence. His life trajectory began to be characterized by his rejection of the society that had rejected him. This landed him in prison, where he was converted to the Nation of Islam. (...)
Many who have rejected Malcolm’s social philosophy unfairly have interpreted him as a preacher of wanton violence against White people. However, this has left them susceptible to the charge of hypocrisy because there are elements within his ethic of violence that many Christians would defend if applied to their own lives. (...)
Malcolm’s ethic of violence has at least three essential parts: self-defense, revolutionary, and retaliatory. A full theological examination of each of these exceeds the limitations of this article. However, one can conclude that Christian ethics allows for violence in the act of self-defense. Contrarily, Malcolm’s advocacy of retaliatory violence conflicts with biblical Christianity.
Malcolm X is one of the most important figures in African American history. His social philosophy in response to the racial terror of the 1950s and ’60s is seen as the ideological opposite of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He is most commonly known for and charged as an advocate of violence.1 However, professor Victor Okafor, a scholar of African American Studies, argues that Malcolm’s social philosophy was a logical response to the challenges of his time.2
Contrarily, there are a variety of views about violence posited by members of the Christian faith; for example, Martin Luther King Jr. approached the same problem but arrived at a different conclusion. He explains, “The basic question which confronts the world's oppressed is: How is the struggle against the forces of injustice to be waged? There are two possible answers. One is to resort to the all too prevalent method of physical violence and corroding hatred. The danger of this method is its futility. Violence solves no social problems; it merely creates new and more complicated ones.”3
King argued that nonviolent resistance is a superior alternative to militant resistance. In fact, he stated that nonviolent resistance is “the most potent weapon available to oppressed people.”4 Another scholar who has considered the question of violence argues that Jesus’ crucifixion demonstrates what the Christian response to violence should be.5 South African theologian Desmond Tutu suggests that, although violence is evil, it is the lesser of two evils when used to stop oppression.6 Another perspective held by James Cone, founder of Black Liberation Theology, asserts that it is normal for Westerners to view violence expressed by disenfranchised people as unchristian.
The problem in the world today that frightens me is the demise of the United States of America. Russia and China are already testing the diplomacy of strength that we had for so many years.
Russia testing West's resolve
Some points from this article:
quote:Putin wants the world to forget 2014 in order to argue that NATO, not Russia, poses the greatest threat to world stability. It’s precisely because of Russian expansionism that NATO is weighing Ukraine’s entry into the trans-Atlantic, mutual-defense pact. Putin is trying hard to portray Russia as the victim when, in fact, it is the clear aggressor. He’s in the process of amassing an expected 175,000 Russian troops near Ukraine’s border. The Biden administration warns that Russia is preparing to do to the rest of Ukraine what it did to Crimea. (...) Russian leaders have a history of sizing up their American counterparts and calculating the most opportune moment to go on the offensive. They seem particularly prone to test U.S. resolve during Democratic administrations, such as the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan under President Jimmy Carter.
This is what keeps me up at night. The demise of America as a superpower. Humility will be the new drug needed to calm Americans that are already being told that they need to give up their privilege.
May Jesus teach me and protect me.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
Darn tootin. You mention what Jesus said to do yet you fail to emphasize what He also said must happen.
These things must happen.
nation against nation=blacks against whites against oriental etc etc.
At that time many will turn away from the faith. Love will grow cold.
What makes you think that just because the Dutch, British, French, and Austro-Hungarians outcomes will mirror that of the United States? We are in different times now. The global population is reaching critical mass. Resources are becoming scarce. Pestilence(pandemics) may well become more of the norm.
We are nearing the final days. Once the economy collapses, money hyper-inflates, the bill gets paid at the expense of every US citizen, and our status as an empire comes to an end, I will again ask you if things will go on as they always did when past empires fell.
2 Peter 3:2-10 writes:
. 3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days' scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
You guys always say that I should stop listening to Right Wing(nut) News. But is Tucker Carlson WRONG in his assessment? WTF is wrong with cities spending money on homeless people and causing more harm than good?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
I merely presented the video...I am not a pawn to right-wing talking points.
The real question is why your side hates it even when they are presented.
Liberals are no smarter than conservatives.
You really need to stop being so extremist (Like Tucker is)
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
Nothing is wrong with spending more money on the homeless.
Let me fix that sentence. Nothing is wrong with spending more money on the homeless.
There is a lot wrong with wasting taxpayer money ineffectively. Get your hands out of my wallet, Dems. Especially you extremists.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox
“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
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