Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9077 total)
95 online now:
PaulK, Phat, Tangle (3 members, 92 visitors)
Newest Member: Contrarian
Post Volume: Total: 894,025 Year: 5,137/6,534 Month: 557/794 Week: 48/135 Day: 0/25 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Could Trump Instigate A New Civil War?
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(3)
Message 61 of 90 (891214)
01-21-2022 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Tanypteryx
01-21-2022 5:09 PM


Re: spending on homeless
The wealthy are not Republicans or Democrats but rather whichever promises to be profitable in the short run at that moment.

And a Civil War simply means another income revenue source.

Edited by jar, : No reason given.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-21-2022 5:09 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 62 of 90 (891241)
01-22-2022 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
01-19-2022 11:18 AM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
I disagree. You cant be a Christian without knowing Jesus.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 01-19-2022 11:18 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 01-22-2022 9:31 AM Phat has replied
 Message 86 by ringo, posted 01-24-2022 11:06 AM Phat has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 63 of 90 (891242)
01-22-2022 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
01-22-2022 8:55 AM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
You disagree with what?

Phat writes:

You cant be a Christian without knowing Jesus.

What does that even mean Phat? You've never been able to even explain in a reasoned argument what that means. You don't even explain what your post has to do with what I wrote and to which you are responding or to the thread topic?.

Who started this topic?

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key. wanted preview.

Edited by jar, : ^ or to the thread topic?.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 8:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 3:40 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 64 of 90 (891248)
01-22-2022 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
01-22-2022 9:31 AM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
jar writes:

What does that even mean Phat?

I will answer your question if you answer mine.

What does it even mean to throw God away? What does it even mean to throw Jesus away?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 01-22-2022 9:31 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by dwise1, posted 01-22-2022 3:57 PM Phat has replied
 Message 68 by jar, posted 01-22-2022 4:01 PM Phat has taken no action
 Message 69 by Tangle, posted 01-22-2022 4:06 PM Phat has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 65 of 90 (891249)
01-22-2022 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
01-22-2022 3:40 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
What does it even mean to throw God away? What does it even mean to throw Jesus away?

What does it even mean to throw Vishnu away? What does it even mean to throw Wotan away?

Gods is gods. (borrowing from a catchphrase in a fast food commercial from the 80's)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 3:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 4:01 PM dwise1 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 66 of 90 (891250)
01-22-2022 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by xongsmith
01-20-2022 5:45 AM


Re: spending on homeless
xongsmith,on how to help the homeless writes:

Give them real homes, jobs, schools and friendly neighbors and wait 20 years
- then they will defend those homes & neighborhoods instead of burning them down.

You liberals are so clueless! I suppose that you think the money to give away housing will come from the state. Thus, taxes will need to be higher so your secular liberal "church" can bring more voters into the Democratic ranks so that your hold on power (your most important thing) will continue.

Wake up. The US is overextended already. Yes, help them some, but without a new outlook on life and therapy, they will simply use the government. (well to be honest, many won't and it will help them but some of them will waste the taxpayers dollars.)

Look, I'm no fan of Tucker. He is indeed a turd. I'm also no fan of spending everyone's money and lulling them into a false sense that what they are doing is working. We need a more balanced government. Extreme liberalism is as bad or worse than extreme conservatism. If there is such an animal as an antichrist (The next Hitler) He/She will most likely be a rabid liberal. The jews will love him until he shows his true colors. And finally, I also blame the liberal side for instituting and defending fiat money. You guys would probably scoff at Apologetic explanations and actually support humans mandatorily backing the money. Full control for the leaders. Disguised as empathy and universal all-inclusive secular love.

*Wake Up From Your Dream!*


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by xongsmith, posted 01-20-2022 5:45 AM xongsmith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 01-24-2022 11:09 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 67 of 90 (891251)
01-22-2022 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by dwise1
01-22-2022 3:57 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
All Deities are not alike. There is only one. As an atheist/secular humanist, you likely think that we all collectively make up our God by trying to be good and noble to each other. But I must run off to work...im spouting extremist nonsense. Back later

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by dwise1, posted 01-22-2022 3:57 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by dwise1, posted 01-22-2022 4:51 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 68 of 90 (891252)
01-22-2022 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
01-22-2022 3:40 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Phat writes:

What does it even mean to throw God away? What does it even mean to throw Jesus away?

Absolutely.

Until you throw God and Jesus away you have absolutely no hope of ever following either.

You need to throw away all of the fantasies you have created and that you worship and try to market.

You are as a child, listening like a child, thinking like a child, understanding like a child.

It's time to grow up and put your childish fantasies away, throw them away.

Stop worshiping your Holy Jeeves; stop praying for the Deus ex Machina.

Your turn.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 3:40 PM Phat has taken no action

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8549
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(3)
Message 69 of 90 (891253)
01-22-2022 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
01-22-2022 3:40 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Phat writes:

I will answer your question if you answer mine.
What does it even mean to throw God away? What does it even mean to throw Jesus away?

Lots of us have explained this to you many, many times over many years. But you don't seem to be terribly interested in the answer. Why not?

Is there an answer from us that you'd prefer to accept?

There are clues in your question of course, "throw god away". It's not like that. It's just a realisation that it was all only a story told to children. Nothing gets "thrown away". When that realisation occurs, the story remains but it's become just another story.

We've many times said it's like Father Christmas - it really is. If you can remember what that was like, then you've got it.

Why is that so hard to accept?

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 3:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 4:09 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 01-23-2022 9:42 AM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 70 of 90 (891254)
01-22-2022 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Tangle
01-22-2022 4:06 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
because honestly I'm not feeling it. The only hope for liberals is to accept a higher power. Same for conservatives. And no, it is not just a story.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Tangle, posted 01-22-2022 4:06 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 01-22-2022 4:13 PM Phat has taken no action
 Message 72 by Tangle, posted 01-22-2022 4:15 PM Phat has seen this message

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 71 of 90 (891255)
01-22-2022 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
01-22-2022 4:09 PM


Throw God and Jesus away
Phat writes:

because honestly I'm not feeling it. The only hope for liberals is to accept a higher power. Same for conservatives. And no, it is not just a story.

But it is just a story Phat.

Look at your past posts and see how often you quote what Jesus is supposed to say (the lines in RED) and what is said by the story tellers that wrote the gospels and epistles.

Clue; John 3:16 is not Jesus speaking.

And what does either the message of Jesus or your fantasy of Jesus have to do with the topic?

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Edited by jar, : remind Phat that to address the topic


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 4:09 PM Phat has taken no action

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8549
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 72 of 90 (891256)
01-22-2022 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
01-22-2022 4:09 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Tangle writes:

because honestly I'm not feeling it.

What have you feelings got to do with it?

I'm telling you about my reality, not yours. You want to to understand things like "throwing god away" you need to listen to those of us that have done it. Otherwise you'll continue being clueless won't you?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 4:09 PM Phat has seen this message

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 73 of 90 (891257)
01-22-2022 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Phat
01-22-2022 4:01 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
All Deities are not alike. There is only one.

Oh, not even close! We have created countless deities, far too many to ever count. Even among those who claim as a collective to believe on "only one", every single believer within that collective has created his own personal deity, but since everyone within the collective all claim that it's the same as all other members believe in nobody ever realizes that their own personal deity is different from everybody else's.

Even Christianity has multiple deities and I'm not talking any Trinitarian nonsense here. And we repeatedly see "true Christians" called "creationists" zealously "serving God" with lies and deception and other mean nasty stuff which actual Christian doctrine identify as instead serving another Christian deity, the Lord of Lies.

As an atheist/secular humanist, you likely think that we all collectively make up our God by trying to be good and noble to each other.

Ha! Right! Since when did "true believers" ever try to be good and noble about anything, let alone to each other?

Also, you're lost in the muck and the mire of your sectarianism and so cannot see the big picture that an outsider can easily see quite clearly. I remember an epiphany I had talking with someone from a narrow "fundamentalist" congregation. Only she bristled immediately at being called that, since that applied to those apostates! It turns out that while all those myriad sects (Should we call them "Legion" for they are many? Please don't tell me that Bible reference went right over your head.) that are virtually identical to each other in almost every single way as to be indistinguishable to external observers, whereas among themselves they are strongly divided on very finely split hairs of theological differences -- they can immediately identify unsurmountable differences between each other while they all just look exactly the same to us.

 
Despite the following quote from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, an awareness of perspective is still important:

quote:
The Total Perspective Vortex derives its picture of the whole Universe on the principle of extrapolated matter analyses.

To explain — since every piece of matter in the Universe is in some way affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it is in theory possible to extrapolate the whole of creation — every sun, every planet, their orbits, their composition and their economic and social history from, say, one small piece of fairy cake.

The man who invented the Total Perspective Vortex did so basically in order to annoy his wife.

Trin Tragula — for that was his name — was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher or, as his wife would have it, an idiot.

And she would nag him incessantly about the utterly inordinate amount of time he spent staring out into space, or mulling over the mechanics of safety pins, or doing spectrographic analyses of pieces of fairy cake.

“Have some sense of proportion!” she would say, sometimes as often as thirty-eight times in a single day.

And so he built the Total Perspective Vortex — just to show her.

And into one end he plugged the whole of reality as extrapolated from a piece of fairy cake, and into the other end he plugged his wife: so that when he turned it on she saw in one instant the whole infinity of creation and herself in relation to it.

To Trin Tragula’s horror, the shock completely annihilated her brain; but to his satisfaction he realized that he had proved conclusively that if life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.


In the story's narrative, Zaphod Beeblebrox had, unbeknownst to him, been transported into a bubble universe that had been created just for him. So when he was condemned to having his brain annihilated by the Total Perspective Vortex, all it ended up doing was to inflate his ego manifold (not that it wasn't already over-inflated) since that he was the most important thing in that universe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Phat, posted 01-22-2022 4:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2022 5:11 PM dwise1 has replied
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 01-23-2022 1:46 AM dwise1 has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 74 of 90 (891259)
01-22-2022 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by dwise1
01-22-2022 4:51 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
quote:
I remember an epiphany I had talking with someone from a narrow "fundamentalist" congregation. Only she bristled immediately at being called that, since that applied to those apostates! It turns out that while all those myriad sects (Should we call them "Legion" for they are many? Please don't tell me that Bible reference went right over your head.) that are virtually identical to each other in almost every single way as to be indistinguishable to external observers, whereas among themselves they are strongly divided on very finely split hairs of theological differences -- they can immediately identify unsurmountable differences between each other while they all just look exactly the same to us.

That reminds me of this Emo Philips joke
The best God joke ever - and it's mine!

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by dwise1, posted 01-22-2022 4:51 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by dwise1, posted 01-22-2022 9:24 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 75 of 90 (891261)
01-22-2022 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by PaulK
01-22-2022 5:11 PM


Re: Is Jesus Liberal or Conservative or...
Which reminds me of a story in which almost everybody in all of history (save for four) all ended up going to Hell just because for any individual there was somebody who believed that his kind was damned to Hell.

M*A*D. Mutually Assured Damnation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2022 5:11 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022