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Author | Topic: Could Trump Instigate A New Civil War? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You tell some good stories! I appreciate what you think. I know that you usually get me thinking as well. I will try and comment tomorrow...I'm soo tired.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Tangle writes: Lots of us have explained this to you many, many times over many years. But you don't seem to be terribly interested in the answer. Why not? The "ability to examine things from another perspective" gene seems to be missing, as does the "we've discussed this before detector" gene. It's apparently common among the religious (especially the creationist religious), Trumpists, and discoverers that relativity is wrong. --Percy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: The "ability to examine things from another perspective" gene seems to be missing, as does the "we've discussed this before detector" gene. It's apparently common among the religious (especially the creationist religious), Trumpists, and discoverers that relativity is wrong. It's very odd isn't it? When Phat says that he believes that he talks to God, or that Jesus is mankind's saviour or whatever, I have no difficulty accepting that that's what he believes. I think it's dumb and delusional but I don't think he's lying to me. It seems that his brain is so thoroughly washed he just can't accept that it's possible not to believe what he believes, so he just dismisses it. So it just comes up again and again like it our explanations have never happened.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5930 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
I'll offer a little something to munch on with your morning coffee: Pascal's Wager, which was offered to me in a proselytizing attempt as "after-life insurance" which I discuss on my page of the same name.
Most people, myself included, have not read the original in Pascal's Pensées, but the basic argument as most understand it you can arrive at four conclusions from two binary premises in which you either win or lose: "Either God exists or He doesn't" and "Either you believe in God or you don't." Refer to either or the two links above for a presentation of those conclusions, but in popular usage:
The Wager is plagued by all kinds of bad assumptions, some of which have leaked in over time, such as the assumption that believing costs you nothing (absolutely wrong!), that everyone benefits from religion (absolutely wrong!), etc. Read the discussion on my page. On my links page I link to a parody "news article" from no longer extant Religion Detox that I reconstructed from a printout, Pascal's Casinos Under Fire. In that article, Pascal's Casinos lured in customers with the promise of sure-win games when in reality those customers were losing their shirts (plus, once you play at Pascal's you are forbidden to play at any other casino). Basically, from my "after-life insurance" page:
quote: Two of the worst assumptions made by invokers of Pascal's Wager are: 1) the odds of God existing or not are even, 50/50, and 2) that there's only one possible definition for "God" and everybody who uses that word means the exact same thing by it. Here is my discussion of the Wager's problems:
quote: In case you missed it there, the "God" in Pascal's Wager was the Catholic god, which makes you as a heretic Protestant damned for Eternity. And not only is it extremely improbable to choose the right god, but agnostic and ignostic truths make even that impossible. We cannot know anything objective about the supernatural because it is outside our human abilities to detect it let alone study it. All we have to go by are subjective feelings and unfounded assumptions which form the quicksand foundations for massive and intricate theological structures ever fearful of being toppled by the slightest breeze. Now, of course, if one decides to use a god-based approach, then that is that person's own choice and he's free to do so. But he is not free to insist to others that his own personal choice must also be accepted by everybody else. And I would hope that in deciding on a god that that person would do so with his eyes open (and brain engaged) enough to realize that his choice of god is arbitrary regardless of how necessary that choice is to his god-based approach. I should also mention how you're pushing our buttons. Christians and other religious fanatics have a long and very bloody history of prosecuting others even to the point of annihilating them just for the purpose of imposing their gods on others. Whenever a Christian tries to force his god on us, we see that extremely ugly side of Christianity coming out and we do not like it one bit! Not unlike when Republicans start talking about "tax cuts" (Reagan's much touted "tax cuts" caused our taxes to nearly double despite our being lower middle class homeowners).
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
dw1 writes: Christians and other religious fanatics have a long and very bloody history of prosecuting others even to the point of annihilating them just for the purpose of imposing their gods on others. Christians, even more than any other religious or political or nationalistic or ideological fanatics, have a long and very bloody history of persecuting others even to the point of annihilating them just for the purpose of imposing their god on others and imposing only the god of their Chapter of Club Christian even on all the other Chapters of Club Christian.My Website: My Website
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Another thought occurred to me. It isn't uncommon in discussions for it to become helpful to reformulate the question. Oftentimes the question as originally formulated wasn't clear or just wasn't interpreted as intended, and then reformulating the question is a good idea.
What Phat is doing is reformulating the same questions over and over again, but not because the earlier formulations weren't clear or the answers weren't clear, and not because anything was misinterpreted, but because a few days have gone by and another way of asking the same questions have occurred to Phat. Repeatedly Phat is met with replies telling him, in effect, "You asked that already" or "We've answered that already", but round and round he goes anyway. Hard to watch or experience, I've taken a break from responding to him. He's become like some of the worst creationists we've ever had here, not about evolution but about gold as an investment and fiat currencies and evil liberals and the nation sinking national debt and threatening immigrants. I wonder how his A1C's doing, I haven't noticed him mention it in a while. --Percy
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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I've gotten mine down to under 5.4 average over the last three months.
Ain't always easy or fun but needed to be done.My Website: My Website
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Who said they did?
One of them which I do *not* accept is the fact that all viewpoints lead to truth. Phat writes:
Nonsense. By their FRUITS ye shall know them.
Truth is the eternally living character of Jesus Christ. Phat writes:
You don't care WJWD. You scoff at WJTYTD. Again, WWJD?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Trump is a far greater threat to the US than Russia and China put together. If the US does collapse in our lifetime, it will be from within. The problem in the world today that frightens me is the demise of the United States of America. Russia and China are already testing the diplomacy of strength that we had for so many years. What you have to fear is fear itself."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Jesus was talking about YOU. "The faith" is faith in the message.
At that time many will turn away from the faith. Phat writes:
Buy a mirror. There's a beam in your eye. Love will grow cold."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
How can you claim to "know" Jesus when you argue against everything He said? You cant be a Christian without knowing Jesus."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
This has been explained to you many times: Pull the poor up to where THEY can pay taxes. That won't increase your taxes. I suppose that you think the money to give away housing will come from the state. Thus, taxes will need to be higher...."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: I dont pay many taxes yet. I no longer get refunds, however. If you pull the poor up to where they pay taxes, you are pulling them past me. Do you honestly think that you can make the top 10% fund your social programs and green new deals? You won't get the money from them. And that leaves the rest of us working hard and being forced by the government to share what little we have.
Pull the poor up to where THEY can pay taxes. That won't increase your taxes.ringo writes: This is obviously a hollow assertion. You *know* that Jesus does not exist but you use his message to justify your party's agenda. I don't ignore what Jesus told me to do. I ignore what the liberal agenda tries to make me do. The whole issue is power. You guys simply don't nor never will have the power to make anyone pay anything.
How can you claim to "know" Jesus when you argue against everything He said?ringo writes: . It is unless the "message" has been hijacked into some sort of universal brotherhooded campaign solgan. "The faith" is faith in the message."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
see Message 36
Jesus' message was that God only recognizes universal brotherhood and you ain't special. Who said that you should do for the least of these? And I answered your question (see Message 68), now it is your turn unless as always in the past you will simply run away.My Website: My Website
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
So what the F**K are you whining about?
I dont pay many taxes yet Phat writes:
If you ever read my posts, you'd know I don't advocate taxing the rich.
Do you honestly think that you can make the top 10% fund your social programs and green new deals? Phat writes:
Again... ... sharing what you have helps EVEYBODY.
And that leaves the rest of us working hard and being forced by the government to share what little we have. Phat writes:
Nope. You prove it with every post.
ringo writes:
This is obviously a hollow assertion How can you claim to "know" Jesus when you argue against everything He said? Phat writes:
Nope.
You *know* that Jesus does not exist... Phat writes:
Nope. There's no party and no agenda. I DO understand that the Jesus character in the Bible got it right on some things. And I DO understand that that's the ONLY valid reference we have for what Jesus (if He ever existed) may have said.
... but you use his message to justify your party's agenda. Phat writes:
Worse than that, you argue against what He said. It's in your posts. Don't pretend you didn't do it.
I don't ignore what Jesus told me to do. Phat writes:
It has nothing to do with any agenda, liberal or otherwise. (And you do realize, don't you, that your harping against "liberals" proves that you're not the moderate that you pretend to be.) I ignore what the liberal agenda tries to make me do. If you ever read my posts, you'd know that it isn't about the government forcing you to do anything. I have told you that many, many, many times. You should be EAGER to do what Jesus told you to do. If you and other Christians were doing what you're supposed to do, there would be no need for government involvement at all.
Phat writes:
Nope. Nothing whatsoever to do with power. It's about compassion.
The whole issue is power. Phat writes:
And i keep telling you, it isn't about "us" having the power to do anything. It's about YOU having an ounce of compassion.
You guys simply don't nor never will have the power to make anyone pay anything. Phat writes:
See, there you go again, arguing against Jesus' message of universal brotherhood. unless the "message" has been hijacked into some sort of universal brotherhooded campaign solgan."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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