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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6621
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 466 of 595 (888565)
09-20-2021 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by Phat
06-22-2021 12:57 PM


Re: Video response
No time for Sunday sundae sunny sermons as of late.

Well, Phat, since you asked ...

... here is another supernatural myth brought down by reality.

Giant Space Rock Blast Wiped Out Ancient City With 1,000 Times Hiroshima's Ferocity

About 3600 yrs ago a big honking space rock killed an ancient city. Two, actually. Late bronze age cities. That's killing two bronze with one stone.

Tall el-Hammam was instantly incinerated. Then, to the west...

quote:
... winds from the blast hit the biblical city of Jericho. Jericho's walls came tumbling down and the city burned to the ground.

This is no big surprize. Anyone considering where the Jericho myth originated would have seen this as an obvious first choice but it's nice to have confirmation.

Point being, the bible loses again.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Phat, posted 06-22-2021 12:57 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 6:27 AM AZPaul3 has taken no action
 Message 472 by PaulK, posted 09-22-2021 1:17 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 467 of 595 (888567)
09-21-2021 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 466 by AZPaul3
09-20-2021 9:52 PM


Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
unseen icy space rocks still originate from a source. Perhaps my question to you is this: Were you given a choice for the labeling of the destruction, would you label "it" as order or chaos?

By my definition, Order equates to a set probability. Chaos is entirely chance. Chance is not probable nor improbable. Chance is entirely random.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : defining chance vs probability


This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by AZPaul3, posted 09-20-2021 9:52 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by ringo, posted 09-21-2021 12:11 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19516
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 468 of 595 (888572)
09-21-2021 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 467 by Phat
09-21-2021 6:27 AM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Phat writes:

By my definition, Order equates to a set probability. Chaos is entirely chance.


Maybe you should try using the real definition.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 6:27 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 469 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 4:02 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 469 of 595 (888579)
09-21-2021 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 468 by ringo
09-21-2021 12:11 PM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Maybe you should explain why the "real" definition is real. Maybe you should then elaborate.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 468 by ringo, posted 09-21-2021 12:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by Tangle, posted 09-21-2021 6:47 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 471 by Percy, posted 09-22-2021 12:53 PM Phat has replied
 Message 476 by ringo, posted 09-23-2021 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8479
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 470 of 595 (888582)
09-21-2021 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Phat
09-21-2021 4:02 PM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Your short absence and premature return hasn't helped.
Not that you ever actually left

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 4:02 PM Phat has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20709
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 471 of 595 (888592)
09-22-2021 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Phat
09-21-2021 4:02 PM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Phat writes:

Maybe you should explain why the "real" definition is real. Maybe you should then elaborate.

Let's analyze this sentence. The first word is "maybe." What does maybe mean? Does maybe mean maybe, or is maybe maybe not the real definition of maybe but maybe something else?

Or maybe you're a very sick puppy. What was your blood sugar yesterday? Did your routine include exercise? How much sugar and carbohydrates were in your diet? If you've had your A1C checked recently, what was it?

You don't need to answer these questions. I'm just reminding you where your main focus should be. Happy birthday, but let's make sure there's another one.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 4:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by Phat, posted 09-23-2021 8:27 AM Percy has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 472 of 595 (888594)
09-22-2021 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by AZPaul3
09-20-2021 9:52 PM


Re: Tel El Hammam
Looks like that paper might be more religious apologetics than science, trying to prop up the Sodom and Gomorrah story.

Start with the series of 3 Twitter threads (so far) here

(Note that the paper is in Scientific Reports rather than Nature itself - which is far less selective and has apparently had problems with peer review before))

And try this

It seems that their osteology is - not good -

A clear red flag


This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by AZPaul3, posted 09-20-2021 9:52 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 473 of 595 (888602)
09-23-2021 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 472 by PaulK
09-22-2021 1:17 PM


Re: Tel El Hammam
Another relevant discussion. The archaeology is apparently normal for a Tel.

The C14 dating assumed that all the data was from a single event.

And in the latest thread the claims to have found shocked quartz are called into question


This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by PaulK, posted 09-22-2021 1:17 PM PaulK has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 474 by Percy, posted 09-23-2021 8:06 AM PaulK has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20709
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 474 of 595 (888604)
09-23-2021 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 473 by PaulK
09-23-2021 2:46 AM


Re: Tel El Hammam
Just to give you some feedback, this looked fishy to me from the start. I spent five minutes or so trying to find things wrong with it but only found that a couple authors had conservative religious connections. Thanks for providing these Twitter links.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 473 by PaulK, posted 09-23-2021 2:46 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by PaulK, posted 09-23-2021 4:01 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 475 of 595 (888605)
09-23-2021 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by Percy
09-22-2021 12:53 PM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Percy writes:

Let's analyze this sentence. The first word is "maybe." What does maybe mean?

It is only a response to ringos initial "maybe". Perhaps I should have followed up by verifying my definitions. I get irritated at that old man because he challenges nearly everything I say. Maybe (just maybe) he should realize that I am not stupid.
Or maybe you're a very sick puppy.
I woke up with moderate blood sugar (188) but realize that it is high overall and needs to be lower. My routine today will include exercise. But allow me to deal with ringo. He makes my blood pressure (not sugar) rise at times, and I feel this compelling urge to argue with him.

Percy writes:

You don't need to answer these questions. I'm just reminding you where your main focus should be. Happy birthday, but let's make sure there's another one.

Good advice, Boss.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by Percy, posted 09-22-2021 12:53 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 477 by ringo, posted 09-23-2021 11:56 AM Phat has seen this message
 Message 478 by Percy, posted 09-23-2021 1:33 PM Phat has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19516
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 476 of 595 (888606)
09-23-2021 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 469 by Phat
09-21-2021 4:02 PM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Phat writes:

Maybe you should explain why the "real" definition is real.


The reason we define words is so we can understand what other people are talking about. If somebody says "duck", we need to have some inkling of what they mean.

So "your" definition of something is meaningless unless everybody understands what that definition is. And in that case, it isn't "your" definition at all; it's "the" definition.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Phat, posted 09-21-2021 4:02 PM Phat has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19516
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 477 of 595 (888607)
09-23-2021 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 475 by Phat
09-23-2021 8:27 AM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Phat writes:

I get irritated at that old man because he challenges nearly everything I say.


I, on the other hand, get irritated at you because you DON'T challenge what you hear.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 475 by Phat, posted 09-23-2021 8:27 AM Phat has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20709
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 478 of 595 (888610)
09-23-2021 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 475 by Phat
09-23-2021 8:27 AM


Re: Creator Of All Seen & Unseen
Phat writes:

I woke up with moderate blood sugar (188) but realize that it is high overall and needs to be lower.

Morning blood sugar is usually resting blood sugar, meaning you haven't eaten all night. If you didn't eat during the night then 188 is such an incredibly high blood sugar that either you are completely mismanaging your diabetes, or your doctor is not providing the proper medications/dosages, or your doctor is not instructing you properly in the management of your diabetes, or some combination. Meanwhile, you're slowing dying.

By the time people start trying to scare you into taking care of yourself by telling you you'll be dead in a couple years it's usually already too late. You're locked into a deadly behavior pattern that time has proven you're unable to break free of. Start saying goodbye to your other toes and then your feet and then your lower legs and then yourself.

Do you have a will?

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 479 of 595 (888612)
09-23-2021 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 474 by Percy
09-23-2021 8:06 AM


Re: Tel El Hammam
I came across the first few links on another site and thought it worth bringing them here. Apparently even Biblical Archaeologists tend to question this crew. They aren’t as bad as Ron Wyatt (about the lowest bar imaginable) - but it doesn’t look like they’re worth taking seriously.

I have to admit that I was a bit dubious about an impact wiping out a major settlement. I should have listened to that feeling more.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Percy, posted 09-23-2021 8:06 AM Percy has seen this message

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6621
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 480 of 595 (891332)
01-25-2022 7:40 PM


Curiosity Items For Phat
A couple of things for your consideration, Phat.

First, you know the concept in science of predictability, yes? If a hypothesis makes a prediction that does not occur then that hypothesis is wrong and must be discarded. This is one major lynchpin in science.

Misterdeity, your favorite, has a recent vid where he presented the fact that the bible has its own version of the predictability standard.

quote:
Deut 18-22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.

In other words if the prophet’s prophesy does not happen then the prophet is false and speaks not for god.

So when a prophet, a messiah, says that the current generation will see the end of times and neither it nor the next 100 generations see such, then that prophet, that messiah, is false and had no connection to god. If you are a true believer in messianic prophesy then unfulfilled prophesy is not of god. When the prophets said a man to be born in Jerusalem who will conquer the Assyrians is the messiah then any man born in Jerusalem who does not conquer the Assyrians cannot be the messiah. And when a prophet tells his followers they will do even greater works than he, raising the dead, healing the sick, curing the blind and walking on water, and yet fails to produce a single follower who can do such things let alone greater things, that prophet is false, has no connection to god and cannot be the messiah.

By your own biblical rules your jesus cannot be a prophet in good standing with god.

Second item of curiosity. You know about cats, yes? Fuzzy, furry little aminals that purr and scratch, huggle and bite. Moose's favorite mistletoe target. The same ones that made their antics known and noted throughout all of human history in art, lore, myth and legend. A most ubiquitous pet. Arguably one of the top two in all humanity, in every culture all around the world, immortalized in stone, and canvas. Motivation for antibiotic ointment and internet memes. Acknowledged, recognised in every human scene through all of time.

Except in the bible.

As I understand things there is not one mention of any domesticated feline family member in any household, palace, temple or manger anywhere in either the old or new book. No fluff ball nestled across the king's lap as he sat upon his throne. Why?

Dogs made it into the bible. Big fish and bears and cows and unicorns and goats and sheep and sea monsters and horses with their emissions, they all made it.

Was god so pissed at his creation of cats he was trying to erase them from history? I guess they had to sneak onto the ark. Can you imagine what the cat had to knock off god’s desk to get that kind of treatment?

Edited by AZPaul3, : Link to Misterdeity

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

  
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