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Author Topic:   When Good Minds Go Bad
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3959
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 46 of 81 (890914)
01-11-2022 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by LamarkNewAge
01-11-2022 9:43 PM


LamarkNewAge - YOU DO NOT BELONG IN THIS TOPIC
Please stop posting in this topic.

I can't do any setting to keep you out of this specific topic, however, I can do a setting to keep you out of the entire "Coffee House" forum.

No whining - Just don't post in this topic. A suspension could well result if you do.

Adminnemooseus


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-11-2022 9:43 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-11-2022 10:19 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge 
Suspended Member (Idle past 58 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 47 of 81 (890915)
01-11-2022 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Adminnemooseus
01-11-2022 9:58 PM


Re: LamarkNewAge - YOU DO NOT BELONG IN THIS TOPIC
I will stay out?

But I will leave with a questipn:

Do you feel that Democrats are genuinely more upset about the January 6 Capitol breach, than Trump supporters?

I never paid much attention to the Jan 6 break-in, mind you. I feel that Trump supporters were horrified, while Trump opponents literally had orgasims of joy.

(That much is very obvious, but the FBI "false flag" theory is doubtful. I think Trump supporters were the ones who breached the Capitol, without very much instigation from moles, intact outside agitators were very few. IMO)

I am done here. Nobody wants to engage in fact-finding. But me.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off topic content hidden (use "peek", if you feel the need). There are other active topics much more suitable for the content.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Adminnemooseus, posted 01-11-2022 9:58 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20985
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 48 of 81 (891548)
02-02-2022 8:11 PM


More From the Young Relative
I just need to vent a little. It hasn't proved possible to have a rational conversation. I've tried to let the conversation wind down, but it hasn't worked. I tried engaging with him by noting where evidence was lacking, but that seemed to irritate him.

Today I posted these two images showing how covid hotspots tend to occur where vaccination rates are lower:


I also sent a couple graphs and some links. It went like this, in part:

quote:
Relative: What you sent me, does it show the millions of unvaxxed infected illegal aliens being distributed across the country, and the result of a failed border policy by a abysmal administration?

Me: I'm not sure if you're referring to the graphs or the maps, but none of them are related to illegal aliens.

Relative: It definitely relates to the millions of undocumented illegal border crossings in 2021, And the relocation of this people inland.


I was just speechless. It's sad to see so much hate in a young man, not to mention lack of comprehension.

Thanks for letting me vent.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by AZPaul3, posted 02-02-2022 10:10 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 51 by Tangle, posted 02-03-2022 3:31 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 65 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-05-2022 3:42 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6837
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 49 of 81 (891549)
02-02-2022 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Percy
02-02-2022 8:11 PM


Re: More From the Young Relative
You can't stop trying. He's family.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Percy, posted 02-02-2022 8:11 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7426
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 50 of 81 (891551)
02-02-2022 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by AZPaul3
02-02-2022 10:10 PM


Re: More From the Young Relative
Yeah he can. The toxicity isn't worth it. I have said goodbye to lots of family since the rise of the orange shit gibbon. No regrets.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by AZPaul3, posted 02-02-2022 10:10 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8579
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 51 of 81 (891552)
02-03-2022 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Percy
02-02-2022 8:11 PM


Re: More From the Young Relative
My wife would tell me not to confront him with stuff that he's forced to reject but to keep talking to him on about anything else. Then hope.

I'd find that hard to do.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Percy, posted 02-02-2022 8:11 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 20985
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 52 of 81 (891555)
02-03-2022 8:31 AM


Thanks for the responses. Yeah, the toxicity is what gets to me. No approach I've tried so far could be said to have worked, but the advice about talking about other things is something I've tried, and I think it has worked least worst. One mistake I avoid at all costs: do not challenge his delusions.

He draws upon a bottomless pool of conspiracy theory videos (why are they always videos?). If I respond to one asking a question, his response is another video. He thinks that if he said it or a video said it that it's true, and any questioning is answered like this:

quote:
When in fact, it's all true.
...
I AM RIGHT, I WAS RIGHT.

But explanations and evidence? Nuh-uh. Not a whit.

I'm venting again. It does seem to help.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-03-2022 10:35 AM Percy has replied
 Message 55 by jar, posted 02-03-2022 11:14 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3437
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 53 of 81 (891556)
02-03-2022 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Percy
02-03-2022 8:31 AM


Several years ago I had the strangest conversation of my life with a nephew. I had stopped overnight at my sister's while on a road trip and he also stopped over and was flying on the next morning.

I'm pretty sure my nephew suffers from something like schizophrenia. There have been odd behavioral signs since he was in high school.

Normally, my sister and her husband have an absolute no politics rule in their house (he used to be republican and she is a democrat), but they had gone to bed. I don't know how we got started, but it was a Gish Gallop of conspiracies, including holocaust denial, 9-11, homophobia and on and on... Every time I asked about evidence it was the trigger for the next outrageous claim.

He's brilliant on computers and works as a sub-contractor with NSA. Both NSA and CIA tried to recruit him while he was still in college, but he went to work for a sub-contractor and was able to pay off his student loans the first year. After a couple years he started his own consulting business and seems to be doing well. He has some kind of high level clearance and does not ever discuss who he works for or what he actually does. He is absolutely paranoid about his digital footprint and does not do any social media and sets up temporary accounts that he changes often for all the applications he uses.

Anyway, our conversation was me being completely incredulous and him being a paranoid nut job until it was time for bed, then we hugged and he told me he loved me (like a switch was flipped) and he had already flown out the next morning when I got up. My sister and her husband never talked about it and I was so confused that I didn't know how to bring it up. I have picked up hints since then from his sisters and my sister that they avoid anything that triggers his paranoid rants and family life seems relatively normal.

What seems to be working is the understanding that contact will be severed if he continues with the crazy behavior. He and I have never mentioned it again.

Maybe, you can make a similar rule, if your relative wants to have a relationship, he has to stop, his choice.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 02-03-2022 8:31 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 02-03-2022 3:57 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6039
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 54 of 81 (891559)
02-03-2022 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Tangle
02-03-2022 3:31 AM


Re: More From the Young Relative
My wife would tell me not to confront him with stuff that he's forced to reject but to keep talking to him on about anything else.

That seems like good advice.

He is probably at a stage where he resents being told anything by an older person. He's at the "don't trust anybody over 20" stage.

The best hope is that he might get some good advice from someone of his own age. That may only be a weak hope, but best to avoid building up the resentment.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 55 of 81 (891561)
02-03-2022 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Percy
02-03-2022 8:31 AM


SOURCE over content

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 02-03-2022 8:31 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Tangle, posted 02-03-2022 11:34 AM jar has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8579
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 56 of 81 (891562)
02-03-2022 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by jar
02-03-2022 11:14 AM


Quit with the big font already! - reserve it for the nut jobs so we know who they are without having to read their nonsense.

It's more than source though, these whackos are seeking out garbage and rejecting knowledge. They're favouring fiction over fact for some reason. It's hard for the rational to understand. I certainly don't get it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 02-03-2022 11:14 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 02-03-2022 11:55 AM Tangle has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 57 of 81 (891563)
02-03-2022 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Tangle
02-03-2022 11:34 AM


It's simply the result of the US system of education since the 1950s.

Remember there is no universal standard for what gets taught in US schools and there is almost universal acceptance of Alternative Education. Control of what is taught in the US Public Schools Systems are controlled at the very local level. Not simply State or County or even City level but at the individual district level.

And there is absolutely no universal or uniform control of what is taught in the Avoidance Schools or Home Schools or Church Affiliated Schools. What has happened is that Alternative Accreditation groups that can approve almost and curricula.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Tangle, posted 02-03-2022 11:34 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Tangle, posted 02-03-2022 12:20 PM jar has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8579
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 58 of 81 (891565)
02-03-2022 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
02-03-2022 11:55 AM


That must explain some of it but the problem isn't unique to the USA - although you're well in front - it's here too and we have a national curriculum.

There just seems to be a proportion of people that reject the rational, actively preferring the irrational.

What do we know about the demographics of these nut jobs?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 02-03-2022 11:55 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by jar, posted 02-03-2022 12:41 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 60 by xongsmith, posted 02-03-2022 12:46 PM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 59 of 81 (891566)
02-03-2022 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Tangle
02-03-2022 12:20 PM


In the US it is about fifty percent of the population.

My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2244
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 60 of 81 (891567)
02-03-2022 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Tangle
02-03-2022 12:20 PM


irrational
Tangle agrees, saying:
There just seems to be a proportion of people that reject the rational, actively preferring the irrational.

It's like the human brain is preferably deceived. You can begin to understand what us non-believers go through. The US was measured at 90% religious/believing in some God. We have a LOT of work to do.

Or maybe not....it's getting too hard to really care about the Lost.


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Tangle, posted 02-03-2022 12:20 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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